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Are Prices In Catalogue Realistic

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 12/08/2022   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A simple solution would be to develop a standard grading 'score card' which the major organizations would all agree upon and use.

This would of course drive towards commoditization of grading services, which is a disincentive to providing grading as a service to begin with. Look at coins (PGCS and NGC) or sports cards (PSA, CSG, BGC). While they all use a 10, 70, or 100 point scale, they compete now only on speed of service and innovations in their respective product holders (and a few other added services like photos), and by casting shade on each other.
People still argue whether a PSA 10 is better than a Beckett 9.5 for example, or whether something is MS-63 or -64. You wind up in the same place.
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66 Posts
Posted 12/08/2022   3:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jmgi2022 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This happens a lot. In the EFO category, I know for a fact, there is an attempt to manipulate prices through prior "sales". I see items pass through at auction for $800 and turn into $4000 within 6 months after 3 transactions


Sorry, being new to the hobby, I don't know what EFO stands for? But yeah, I can see it happening more in the higher priced stuff than in inexpensive post-1940 moderns, where I'm situated, lol.
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Posted 12/08/2022   4:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
EFO=Errors, Freaks, Oddities?
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Posted 12/08/2022   4:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This would of course drive towards commoditization of grading services, which is a disincentive to providing grading as a service to begin with. Look at coins (PGCS and NGC) or sports cards (PSA, CSG, BGC). While they all use a 10, 70, or 100 point scale, they compete now only on speed of service and innovations in their respective product holders (and a few other added services like photos), and by casting shade on each other.
People still argue whether a PSA 10 is better than a Beckett 9.5 for example, or whether something is MS-63 or -64. You wind up in the same place.


There are only three expertizing agencies that I am aware of that grade stamps, PF, PSE and PSAG. Ironically the last, PSAG, was at the forefront of grading but is now an also ran based upon what you see in auction and retail sales. Crowe also offers the service but is not anywhere near the main three organizations size.

All three have as their main business certification of authenticity and along with those opinions come analysis/ examinations for faults and assorted chicanery.

The three already have their proponents and detractors, often tied to exactly what item it is that you seek an opinion upon. I have seen little evidence of "shopping" between the three for a higher grade and my experience shows much uniformity between PSE and the PF grades.

My opinion is that where an item is sent has little to do with what grade you think you might get from one organization or the other but rather how much you trust their expertizing. And since you cannot get a grade without first getting the expertizing service having a standard for grading would not have a negative impact on the industry.

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Posted 12/08/2022   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add caspian65 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What we are seeing now with stamp grading is that items previously graded, say 10-15 years ago are in some cases not able to retain the same grade if resubmitted today. Assuming this has more to do with the methods and devices used in examining stamps being more advanced. This really screws over collectors though, as we are left guessing if an older graded item really is the same. There are definitely inconsistencies with PF, PSE and PSAG. My experience is that PF is the most critical on grade, then PSE, then PSAG. I have had several stamps bought that were a PSAG grade 98, only to have them come back as a 90 or 95 when submitting to PSE. Same with PSE vs PF, although not as much. I have PSE graded items from early 2000's that I resubmitted for 'current' cert and came back with a lower grade, in once case significantly lower (95 to an 85).

What makes the grading score difficult to discern is the certificates do not note what led to that score. There are many instances where centering alone does not guarantee a certain grade. Any other minor issues, not worthy of noting on a cert, could lower the overall grade. But, no way for anyone to know that.
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Edited by caspian65 - 12/08/2022 5:22 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 12/09/2022   09:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The real value of anything is the price at which a willing seller will part with it to a willing buyer. This is directly related to the available supply of an item on the market compared to the number of folks wanting to buy it. Catalog value may or may not, and probably does not, reflect the current market value.
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Posted 12/09/2022   4:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add YbT to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have noticed at a stamp show I can often buy at 1/2 Scott's, but at a coin show I have to pay close to Red book (their version of Scott's). I do not have enough coin samples for a valid statistical conclusion, but it is an interesting observation. I also note at a coin show the dealers often have more up to date sales info than the Red book, via the grey sheet. I do not believe such a creature exists for stamps, and Scott's is the default price list.
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80 Posts
Posted 12/09/2022   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add caspian65 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have noticed at a stamp show I can often buy at 1/2 Scott's, but at a coin show I have to pay close to Red book (their version of Scott's). I do not have enough coin samples for a valid statistical conclusion, but it is an interesting observation. I also note at a coin show the dealers often have more up to date sales info than the Red book, via the grey sheet. I do not believe such a creature exists for stamps, and Scott's is the default price list.


Out of curiosity, are these common items noted as buying at 1/2 SCV? SCV is for stamps with VF centering and no faults.

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United States
59 Posts
Posted 12/09/2022   5:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add YbT to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have gotten very nice stamps at 1/2 Scott, no faults, nice centering.
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United States
59 Posts
Posted 12/09/2022   5:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add YbT to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In fact a dealer friend told me he buys at 1/3, sells at 1/2. Perhaps some of the dealers on this forum may comment on this.
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Posted 12/09/2022   7:27 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The coin market is more liquid than the stamp market.
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