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Need Help Determining A Scott 491 From A 454.

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 492Next Topic  
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Posted 09/06/2021   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Harper1249 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've been sorting through an envelope of Washington-Franklin coil stamps and wanted to see what people thought about this one.

It is Perf 10 vertically.
It is Rotary Pressed.
It appears to be a Type II
I cannot find watermark.

Assuming all 4 of these criteria are correct, then this would be a #491. 491 is a rare stamp so i'm questioning wether I missed the watermark* or I am incorrectly identifying it as a type II. What do folks think I have here? 454 or 491 or something else? I am posting several images of the stamp in question.

* When I stare at the back of this stamp while in fluid I can see what one might construe to be an "S" just above and to the right of center. I think these are the cancellation lines showing through the stamp.



Back of stamp


Back of stamp in watermark fluid (Ronsonol)


Negative of above image with adjusted contrast (This may or may not be helpful).


Here's my check to see if it is a rotary.


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Posted 09/06/2021   11:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Appears to have some re-perfing going on.
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Posted 09/06/2021   11:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a certified 454 for comparison.


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Posted 09/07/2021   07:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think I see specs of red on the back of the stamp indicating flat plate.

Jack Kelley
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Posted 09/07/2021   09:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It does appear to be a rotary type II, re-perfed on the left. On the image in fluid of the back, there might be a portion of a 'U' in the lower right corner and possibly an 'S' in the center slightly shifted right of center. Single-line watermarks can be hard to see. I certainly struggle with them sometimes.
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Posted 09/07/2021   09:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the replies. What characteristics are you all seeing that indicate re-perforation on the left(i'm assuming left when looking at the front of stamp). I see a curving in the perforation on both sides. Left curves inward and the right curves outward. I figured this was caused by cutting when dispensed from a vending machine. I've seen similar curvature on other coils.
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Edited by Harper1249 - 09/07/2021 3:28 pm
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Posted 09/07/2021   09:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Harper's latest post. This stamp shows the cutting characteristics of a dispensing machine. I was doing the following image manipulation as he was making his reply. Note particularly the lower half of the perforation row - the corresponding short and long perfs, the angle of the perf-tip cuts, the overall bowing outward to the right at the halfway point of the affixer's cut.



Note the center perf tip pair with an identical jog to the cutting pattern:

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Edited by John Becker - 09/07/2021 10:05 am
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Posted 09/07/2021   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a type II, so it can not be a flat plate printing. Shade looks incorrect for a Scott 491 and it appears to have a sideways "P" at the right center as viewed from the reverse. My vote is Scott 454.
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Posted 09/07/2021   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't see Harper's check for flat/rotary in the above pics.. It is obviously a rotary stamp.

Jack Kelley
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