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Double Grills Of 1867 US Postage Stamps

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Posted 09/14/2021   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add PKsPassport to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


Question about 1867 US issue of grilled stamps with double grills. Can anyone show me an example of a C, D, E, F or even a Z grill and are they very rare.
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Posted 09/14/2021   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 09/14/2021   08:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PKsPassport to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you for the information.
Can a multiple grill be connected as one grill, example being the one cent stamp having more vertical rows(17/18+) then the grills of E, F, and Z. Would this still be considered as a multiple grill or just a straight up printing freak?
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Posted 09/14/2021   09:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shakey 7 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While I can't show you an example. rogdcam has given you a very good resource to get started with. Additionally if you take a close look at the bottom of the link he posted for you it has a couple of fine examples shown and some other sources of information. There are some other sources of information as well. One that I have is titled: United States Grills by WM. L. Stevenson and it touches on everything is covered in the link to stamp smarter and the information to the link is in color not black and white with stereo instructions.

The major difference is that Bill Weiss and Don Denman have brought stamp collecting resources into the 21 century with no cost to you.

Some of the hard copy resources can get quite pricey sometimes upwards of several C notes or more if you aren't careful.
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Posted 09/14/2021   09:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@PKsPassport. maybe you can try and show us a picture of what you are asking?


Peter
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Posted 09/14/2021   10:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would say that double grills are uncommon, but not rare. The most common are the ones on Scott 88 (E grill) and 94 (F grill). A check of the Scott Specialized shows a listing of a double grill for Scott numbers 83 (C grill), 85 (D grill), 85B and 85C (Z grills), 86-91 (E grills) and 92-101 (F grills).

Much more difficult to find are the double grill, one split by perforations.
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Posted 09/14/2021   11:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For published information on grills, try:

United States Grills by Wm. L. Stevenson and Notes on the Grilled Issues of the United States by Lester G. Brookman - reprinted together by Triad Publications

The Story of United States Grilled Postage Stamps by William K. Herzog - Article in 1978 Congress book

Charles F. Steel's Grill and Other Patents by H. D. S. Haverback - article in The Collectors Club Philatelist Volume 35, No. 2 - March 1956

The Inception and Evolution of U.S. Grilled Stamps by C. W. Bert Christian - published in five parts in The Philatelic Foundation Bulletin - Sorry I don't have the dates of publication for this series and APRL does not list them. Christian does have a number of articles about grills published in the Chronicle and by APS

1868 Production Grills, Why Size Matters by Rex Dean Bishop - Collectors Club Philatelist, Volume 99, Number 4, July/August 2020

US 1868 3 B Grill: The Mysterious Million-Dollar Stamps by Ken Lawrence - article in April 2009 Scott Stamp Monthly

The 1-cent Z Grill Mystery by Ken Lawrence, 1995 Congress book

Recognition of Two Major Types of the Z Grill by Jerome S. Wagshal, The Philatelic Foundation Opinions IV
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Posted 09/14/2021   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Scott #94 with a split grill:

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Posted 09/15/2021   06:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PKsPassport to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I thank all of you for the outstanding information and assistance.I have been trying to upload this item but with no success. I will keep trying. I figure it's something simple that I'm doing wrong. I'll get it figured out.
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Posted 09/15/2021   11:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PKsPassport to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I'm not sure if these photos took but hopefully they did.
If you can see them, you'll see a lot of both horizontal pyramids and vertical pyramids.
Pyramids are approximately 18 in height and unknown in width as they start approximately in front of Franklin's face and end in the perforations to the lower right of stamp.

Have you ever seen anything like this before???

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Posted 09/15/2021   11:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like a patent cancel and not a grill - like a grill, a patent cancel was designed to cut the paper fibers to allow the cancel ink to soak in and prevent reuse.
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Posted 09/15/2021   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe Skinner-Eno type PN-H1 or something similar - see here https://d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.n...us-Types.pdf
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Posted 09/15/2021   12:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PKsPassport to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

SPOR, I'm not exactly sure of your description because mine doesn't seem to be in your league. Also mine appears to be sent via a regular post from Sandusky Ohio. Maybe you can clarify further about patent cancels because this one doesn't seem to fit. Thank you for your help
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Posted 09/15/2021   2:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm saying that your stamp does not appear to have a grill. Your stamp looks like it was cancelled with a device that cut the stamp to prevent reuse (referred to as a patent cancel). Compare your image with the grilled stamp posted by Classic Coins.
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Posted 09/17/2021   08:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PKsPassport to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

SPOR,
Where can I find info on patent cancels. I tried the internet and Scotts but to no avail. Any suggestions would be welcome. Is there an interest in collecting them because I also have 3 cent items and maybe a 10 cent one that looks the same.
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Posted 09/17/2021   3:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Skinner and Eno Book probably has the best listing patent cancels. There is a revised version available for free on the USPCS webpage https://www.uspcs.org/?s=skinner see chapter VIII. I'm not aware of a good article explaining patent cancels in general.
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