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Mytilene (Lesbos) Type Overprint On Turkey Scott# 154 (Design A21), Catalogue Number?

 
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Posted 09/27/2021   01:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add bmbmbm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,

I was having trouble identifying the catalogue number of this stamp.

It looks it could be one of the stamps listed under Mytilene (Lesbos) in the back of the Greece section (In my 2017 Scott Classic Specialized catalogue).

It seems sort of like N71, but not quite. The underlying stamp seems the same, but the stamp should be surcharged 2d, but I don't see a 2.

Any help is appreciated!

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Posted 09/27/2021   02:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great thread Title! well done.

I can confirm the Postmark is genuine.

Island of Mitylene, Midilli, Metelin (LESBOS)
MIDILLI (Turk)
Coles and Walker #40 Page 80
(Lost Territories in Europe - Blue Book)
29mm Circular 6 (Number 1) - 1912

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Edited by rod222 - 09/27/2021 02:26 am
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Posted 09/27/2021   02:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Under the "Capitulations", Post Offices were established in Mytilene
by Austria, Egypt, France and Russia.
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Posted 09/27/2021   02:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert here (is anyone? I've yet to find a signed or certified example of the drachma surcharges), but everything seems to point to this being a forgery.

Neither Michel nor Vlastos lists your example. The surcharge that Scott doesn't illustrate (in my older catalog at least) reads DIDRACHMON in Greek, meaning "two drachmas". Neither they nor Scott list an error of the surcharge with the DRACHME (singular drachma) overprint like on N70.

The three-line overprint looks good to me and those are known forged particularly in the varieties. But there are genuine (and inexpensive) ones of the basic overprinted stamps around.

Cancel: MIDILLI was the name of the city of Mytilene under Ottoman rule. So the cancel makes sense except that the ones I've seen for the Greek overprints had the Turkish lettering at top removed and the (Turkish) numbering in the date line also removed. 9 November 1912 is the first date for all the Greek overprints but catalogs list the drachma surcharges issue date as just 1912. And yes, there are MIDILLI cancels with the Turkish parts removed that were dated 9 November 1912.

I stumbled across this:
https://siris-libraries.si.edu/ipac...01~!274958!0
Les surcharges de Mytilene, by M. le Comte de Fayolle, 1913 Yvert booklet, available/viewable online downloadable - it's in the public domain. You must be signed in, but when I tried to sign up, it conveniently sent me to my Microsoft account and then told me my credentials were invalid. Your mileage may vary.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 09/27/2021 7:09 pm
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Posted 09/27/2021   03:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Downloaded OK, Thank you.
No image of Poster's Overprint example (Bolded)

Postmarks
METELIN (French)

31 Mytilene 1868
32 Midilli shubeshi (Market) 1886
33 Midilli Carsisi 1289 (Google translate = Pony Carriage) 1876

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Posted 09/27/2021   04:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hm. Did you click on the link given at the bottom of the page mentioned? That only gives you a download of the page mentioned. At least, that's what I got.

Thanks again, rod. These are the Ottoman era cancels, I believe. There is also a double ring Greek-lettered Greek-style cancel on Mytilene issues.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 09/27/2021 7:09 pm
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Posted 09/27/2021   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Did you click on the link given at the bottom of the page mentioned?


I opened the file, which was a flip page style *.pdf.
When I got to page 3 or so, a download icon appeared
and I saved a normal *.pdf of the booklet

I am not sure I could repeat.

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Posted 09/27/2021   05:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Open link
Click on book image
It opens with download icon.......

Nice to have Windows 10, read it to me in French,
I understand about 5%

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Edited by rod222 - 09/27/2021 06:04 am
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Posted 09/27/2021   06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Solved....the Overprint on the original Poster's stamp

Scarce do you think?

Caveat: shows only on the 20 paras, NOT the 1 Piastre.
Must be listed in Yvert & Tellier

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Edited by rod222 - 09/27/2021 06:17 am
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Posted 09/27/2021   08:00 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think French catalogues for the French area would only list the French stamps used at Metelin.
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Posted 09/27/2021   08:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

The four stamps on Rod's list are Yvert # 16/9 (Mytilene)
But Yvert # 18 (overprint on Yvert # 156 from Turkey) is not the OP's stamp

(not my stamp)
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Posted 09/27/2021   12:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think it is a bogus DRACMI ovdrprint on the 1pi blue stamp.The Fayolle book does not mention this error;if there was one..Plus he notes printers were at work turning out many types of un authorized overprnts in numbers exceding the quota.
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Posted 09/27/2021   7:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, rod. I'm too dumb to figure that out but the download works for me also. I got a checklist that even offered to download in e-book format. Now to look for more digitized public domain stuff in that collection!

Always good to have vayolene and perf12 and GeoffHa contributing as well.

Perf12 wrote:

Quote:
Plus he notes printers were at work turning out many types of un authorized overprnts in numbers exceding the quota.

That helps seal it for me that this is bogus. It would be too easy for them to take a sheet/pane of the 3-line overprinted stamp and use the surcharge setup for the rose stamp. Plus, note the issue date the Count gives. That disqualifies the cancel on the OP's stamp as being used postally.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 09/27/2021 7:11 pm
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Posted 09/27/2021   9:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As well as the other problems the postmark looks wrong to me. :(

The fonts don't match those shown in either Coles & Walker or Nicolas & Galinos (especially the large figure "1").
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Nigel
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Posted 09/28/2021   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Always good to have vayolene and perf12 and GeoffHa contributing as well.


and NIGEL as well

Righty O, accept this is fraudulent, thanks everyone indeed !

I had been excusing the difference in the CDS
as having been a different hammer,
I could not see anyone making up a decent Pmk impression like that on an obscure stamp.
But the weight of observance here by all, has me accepting FORGERY.

Interesting route, enjoyed this.
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