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Rpo Clerk Dater Or Postmark Of A Rpo Agent?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 278Next Topic  
Valued Member
Germany
58 Posts
Posted 10/20/2021   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add grisuhh62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I found this postcard offered at eBay.




I wonder if this stamp is an RPO Clerk Dater or an RPO Agent stamp. My guess is that because there is a city name, Dunkirk, N.Y., among others, it would have to be a stamp of an RPO Agent?
Since I have not seen any such postmarks and do not have the catalog about them, I cannot estimate it, let alone determine it.
Thanks for your help!

Juergen
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
802 Posts
Posted 10/20/2021   6:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
See: http://goscf.com/t/73496 Perhaps you will remember that thread.

RPO Clerks had personalized cancellation devices.

If there is a philatelic library you can access in Germany (or near by) personally or by mail these are a good start for information:

The United States Railway Post Office Postmark Catalog 1864-1877 by Charles L. Towle catalogs and prices every known marking. Volumes 1 to 3 catalog R.P.O.markings and Volume 4 catalogs Transfer Clerk and Transfer Office markings.

U.S. Route and Station Agent Postmarks by Charles L. Towle catalogs and prices every known Agent, Railroad and Station Agent marking.

Directory Of Railway Post Offices by John Kay presents the dates of operation of R.P.O. lines as noted by post office records. This information is often contradictory to what is seen on known markings.

Directory Of Route Agent Routes by John Kay presents similar data as the Railway Post Office Directory but covers the earlier periods.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 10/20/2021 6:55 pm
Valued Member
Germany
58 Posts
Posted 10/21/2021   02:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add grisuhh62 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Parcelpostguy

of course I remember this thread. That is from me.
As I said, I am missing the catalog of the stamps of the RPO agents.
This stamp is different from the ones I have seen so far (also to the one in the thread mentioned). It does not include a train number, but, as I said, it does include a city name (Dunkirk, N.Y.).
It is of little use to me to point to multiple publications. Since I do not intend to collect the RPO Agents postmarks, I will not buy the catalog for them, as well as others in your list.

I thought I would get questions answered here, which I have experienced several times, and not references to literature. Unless I ask directly for such.
Is it so hard to just say "yes, it's an RPO agent stamp" or "no, it's not"? That's all I want to know!

Juergen
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2567 Posts
Posted 10/21/2021   03:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Such a cancel does not have to have a train number. The transit info is clear with the town being shown, and with "NORTH" given. That is not necessarily the actual compass direction but what is used by the railroad.

If you asked the eBay seller for a scan of the back, it would have likely established this was about railroad business. It would tell you the name of the specific railroad (or perhaps just an abbreviation for it) and would also likely give you the year of use.

The long explanation by Parcelpostguy is given to also assist others who read this thread, not just you alone.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
802 Posts
Posted 10/21/2021   06:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I thought I would get questions answered here, which I have experienced several times, and not references to literature. Unless I ask directly for such. Is it so hard to just say "yes, it's an RPO agent stamp" or "no, it's not"? That's all I want to know!


I am so sorry, I apologize and I will never make that mistake with you again. [Now please stop reading as the rest of this post does not address your question.]








The back is above hy-brasil and your were correct on two accounts, the card is RR Business and regarding the reason I posted the book information. I will add, I suggested a library check out but perhaps libraries in Germany only sell books.

Mr. Travis held a civil service appointment as an RPO Clerk as of July 1, 1893, five weeks after the date of the postcard. See: https://books.google.com/books?id=p...ge&q&f=false [Note to OP, if you read this far contrary to my advise, I am only addressing the work status of Mr. Travis, not your marking question about his personal cancellation device.]

By 1917 Mr. Travis still lived in Dunkirk, NY and owned and had an interest in breeding certified and papered American Berkshire Swine as recorded by the American Berkshire Association. Wrote quack medicine articles as well.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 10/21/2021 06:07 am
Valued Member
Germany
58 Posts
Posted 10/22/2021   04:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add grisuhh62 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Parcelpostguy

Actually, it's my turn to apologize to you. First, because I reacted so indignantly. Secondly, because I have withheld information from you.
That is: I live in Germany. Which means that getting hold of this literature is much more difficult and above all much more expensive. Of course, you could not know that.
Library: yes, a valid objection. And my advantage is that there is one in my city (Hamburg). I have deliberately not looked there (online). I have now made up for it with the result that I expected: all the books mentioned by You are not available there. I expected so. Because the German collectors deal for the most part with topics of German philately, which means that the demand for foreign topics, especially outside Europe, is almost non-existent. And thus, of course, no literature on these topics, due to lack of demand.
I do not get my question answered in German forums for the same reason. I suspect that I am probably the only collector of "RPO Clerk Dater" postmarks in Germany.
My intention with my question was to get a quick answer to see if this stamp "fits" my collection or not. And since it is an auction, I need this information relatively quickly. Too fast for buying literature.
Literature: first, these special publications are very rare to find in Germany. And to buy them in the USA, because of the high shipping costs (and also import fees), only makes sense for me if I need this literature regularly and not only to get a question answered.
After my question is answered, I am of course interested in background knowledge. E.g. how I can distinguish these two stamps (Clerk dater and stamp of the Route Agents).
BTW: the claim that RPO Clerks were required to have a "dater" I have not yet found confirmedz in my PL & R research. What may also be due to the fact that I do not know until now what the designation of these stamps is there.
This has now become a lot of text. (and I apologize for my English - translation with "DeepL"). I hope you understand now my reaction and my situation a little better.
Nevertheless, thank you for taking the trouble to write an answer to my question.

Juergen
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Edited by grisuhh62 - 10/22/2021 04:06 am
Pillar Of The Community
3940 Posts
Posted 10/22/2021   09:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the claim that RPO Clerks were required to have a "dater" I have not yet found confirmed in my PL & R research.


You are looking too hard. Clerks were indeed required to mark their name, etc., on various forms, but obtaining a device was optional, purely as a convenience to them to avoid having to write the same information multiple times by hand.

I would also add to parcelpostguy's post of:

Quote:
The United States Railway Post Office Postmark Catalog 1864-1877 by Charles L. Towle catalogs and prices every known marking. Volumes 1 to 3 catalog R.P.O.markings and Volume 4 catalogs Transfer Clerk and Transfer Office markings.

"every known marking" .... known to the authors at that time. Since then, many additional unlisted cancels have been discovered. The listings also have some errors, but that is a tangent for another thread.
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