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Tuscany #17 Genuine? Unused?

 
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Posted 10/22/2021   6:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Riley111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Helo
I compared this stamp with the genuine characteristics as described in Album Weeds. I cannot see anything that tells me it is not genuine. Any opinion would be appreciated.
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Posted 10/22/2021   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That looks like a cut out from a book or catalog,the stamp doesn't look like that .

To me it looks like it is from a 1960's Italian stamp auction catalogs even in the 1960's the U.S. stamp auction catalogs ran decent picture but the Italian one's are horrible .
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Edited by floortrader - 10/22/2021 6:50 pm
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Posted 10/22/2021   6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe it is badly damaged. I can see the watermark.
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Posted 10/23/2021   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks genuine IMO.Faulty,it has an ink manuscript cancel.Value 0
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Posted 10/23/2021   10:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Posted 10/23/2021   10:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perf 12 ---I believe it is a cutout .looks nothing like the scan above this posting .
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Posted 10/23/2021   11:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do not believe that is a "cutout" or canceled. What looks like a cancel is actually the watermark. It is obviously seriously damaged.
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Posted 10/23/2021   11:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Serrane Guide offers the following notes on the attributes of the original stamps:

The stamps are 18 1/2 x 23 mm in size.
The lettering, corner ornaments, and lower frame line breaks are the same as those of the Tuscany Lion issues.
There is a dot after the value abbreviation.
The shield has five vertical shade lines in each quarter.
None of the shade lines are joined to their neighbors.
The vertical beam of the cross is under the "T", a little to the left of the letter's axis.
There are five jewels in the band of the crown.
On the 1 - 20 C. denomination stamps, the value inscription almost touches the lower frame line.
The word "FRANCOBOLLO" is printed as ONE word, not TWO.
The paper is grayish white, not yellowish.

Watermark:
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Posted 10/23/2021   11:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Assume you've also checked the stamp against this site? Found it helpful when going through a bunch of Tuscany last year. Note that some forgeries appear watermarked.

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...uscany-1860/
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Posted 10/23/2021   12:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unless the OP posts a better pic ,also of the reverse side......conclusions can be made
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Posted 10/23/2021   2:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like this, makes me think
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Posted 10/23/2021   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Riley111, could you do us the favor of providing a scan of the back? It might help explain what's going on here. The stamp appears either thinned overall or has been soaked in something. That would explain the lack of a normally clear watermark and why what remains shows through to the front.

perf12 is correct, genuine but pen cancelled, plus faults already noted. The pen cancel is the vertical mark just right of center that hits the notch at the bottom. Someone has attempted to bleach it out unsuccessfully, accounting for the brown color.

Every catalog's high catalog values for classics are for examples that are not only sound but have 4 large margins for the particular issue, plus a (nice) postmark and not a pen cancel (unless they only come that way). This is quite typical for the earliest classic stamps like those from the German states, Greece Large Hermes Heads, etc. Any less quality and the price drops dramatically, often to just a couple per cent of that high catalog value.

Such stamps are still worth keeping as reference items or spacefillers.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/23/2021 5:59 pm
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Posted 10/23/2021   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
genuine but pen cancelled


Have to disagree. Pen cancelled examples are uncommon and I believe that you are looking at a watermark line.

We are making assumptions though and I would love to see a scan of the other side as others have requested.

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Posted 10/23/2021   7:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have no clue what these other posters are trying to do . But it is clear they don't collect TUSCANY stamps like me . That stamp above looks nothing like a real stamp, here is my page of that issue .
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Posted 10/23/2021   8:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I understand you Floortrader. The op's stamp is badly damaged. That does not mean that it is not real. Just basically of little to no value. If it was a color cutout I would hate to see the rest of the book.
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Posted 10/24/2021   06:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Floortrader,
I clearly see your point…but I do have to agree with the others - it's genuine,
The difference you see in the design and colour can be explained….but good eye regardless

I have to agree with rodgcam on it looking like watermark bleeding threw
But will also add,
hy-Brazil is right in us needing a image of the back

Just my thoughts
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Edited by Just_fella - 10/24/2021 06:59 am
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