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Questions On Rpsl Certificate

 
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Posted 10/25/2021   04:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jossanders52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am very puzzled about an RPSL certificate issued for a sheetlet of Thailand war time printed stamps.
The certificate number is RPSL 126538 issued November 23, 1983
The conclusion in the certificate says Samples made for philatelic. It does not state if it are fakes or if the sheetlet is genuine.

So, what does this mean?

These stamps are known to be fakes although there is no clear literature available stating the stamps are fakes or genuine.
I checked if the certificate itself is genuine and I did find that in 1983, certificates with numbers 123542 - 126868 were issued so the number falls inside the 1983 range.
I could not find an actual description of the RPSL number.

Anybody can help me please. Why would the RPSL issue a certificate with such an unclear description of Samples made for philatelic. Why not say, genuine or fake or unknown status?
Thanks a lot.

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Posted 10/25/2021   04:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jos,
I think you can join the RPSL for free.
Then ask.

I went to join yesterday, to buy a Salvador Catalogue,
they do not send merchandise to PO boxes, so I declined.

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Posted 10/25/2021   05:38 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 10/25/2021   06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Government counterfeit?
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Posted 10/25/2021   06:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Geoff,
perhaps buying merchandise, did not require membership,
however I was asked to Log in with personal details, and construct a password.


Quote:
Samples made for philatelic


As an English speaker, that does not make any sense to me.
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Edited by rod222 - 10/25/2021 06:35 am
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Posted 10/25/2021   06:45 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In my non-scientific experience, the division between registering when purchasing and continuing "as guest" is roughly 50/50. Is that the whole phrase, or is there more after "philatelic"?
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United States
175 Posts
Posted 10/25/2021   06:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jossanders52 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I asked my Japanese friend to tell me exactly what the certificate says.
"Printed Samples made for Philatelists"
The opinion was given by Mr. Steven Tan. Steven Tan was the owner of a stamp shop in Kuala Lumpur and I guess he was considered by the RPSL as a specialist on WWII occupation stamps. The stamps were issued by Thailand but used in Northern Malaya during WWII.
Steven Tan did also issue the Postage stamp catalog of Malaya, Singapore and Brunei.

I also did send an email to the RPSL asking what The phrase exactly means.
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Posted 10/25/2021   07:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
f these were produced as philatelic samples (specimens) and issued by the proper institution, they may be genuine as samples but not postage stamps. Specimen (and cancelled) overprints can also be expertised without being "examples" of a stamp, since they were not intended to prepay postage but as samples.

Normally, the certificate states what they are supposed to be and the experts' opinion relates to that.

Without the full image of the certificate it is difficult to tell what is going on.
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Edited by NSK - 10/25/2021 07:17 am
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Posted 10/25/2021   07:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is that the whole phrase, or is there more after "philatelic"?


That was my query, the predicate was not complete (to my understanding)


Quote:
"Printed Samples made for Philatelists"

That answers my query.

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Posted 10/25/2021   07:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Using a more Philatelic reference, would IMPRIMATURS
cover their description ?

Perhaps Mr. Tan would not have this in his lexicon?


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Posted 10/25/2021   07:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How would an imprimatur constitute a sample for philatelists? As it states "to be printed" is a sample of stamps that are to be printed and serve for official record purposes.
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Posted 10/25/2021   07:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Produced and printed, then not released, and sold to Philatelists.
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Posted 10/26/2021   12:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
jossanders wrote, "The stamps were issued by Thailand but used in Northern Malaya during WWII". So they were actually used as postage stamps?
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Posted 10/26/2021   11:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jossanders52 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamps itself were used in Northern Malaya. The fake, based on that design were only philatelic.

I received answer from the RPSL.

They told me that the stamps were absolutely not postal and the certificate from the RPSL only stated "made for philatelists". They even expanded that they believe it are fakes. They only ever issued 1 certificate on those stamps in 1983

There was also an RPSL statement complaining that a Singapore auction house sold a number of lots with similar items claiming they had a RPSL certificate. This was misuse and misrepresentation of the 1 certificate they ever issued
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Posted 10/27/2021   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If RPSL claimed that they were fake - how could they have been used in Malaya? I probably misunderstood something.
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