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First Penny Black Stamp Could Fetch Up To 6m At Auction

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Posted 10/26/2021   10:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add James Drummond to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
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Posted 10/26/2021   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
9th Penny Black
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Posted 10/26/2021   2:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Neeskens13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



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Posted 10/26/2021   2:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, if the sheet from which this example came was printed from the top down, it was among the 12 first stamps. If it was printed from the bottom up, it does not make the top 228.
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Posted 10/26/2021   2:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wkusau to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good call, NSK. I agree that the sheet was printed "essentially" at the same time and where the individual stamps are on the sheet is not so important.
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Posted 10/26/2021   2:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I smell "Fractional Ownership" in the air.
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Posted 10/26/2021   2:58 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The point is the history and provenance of the stamp, not the sheet position, chaps.
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Posted 10/26/2021   3:35 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Color me simple, but each plate was only used to print 1 sheet of stamps? If not, how does anyone know that this in fact is **THE** first penny black? Yes there's collateral accompanying the stamp, but that still doesn't prove that it was the first one (and wouldn't there actually be potentially multiple "first ones" given that an entire sheet was printed)?

Seems more puffery than substance. What am I missing?
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Posted 10/26/2021   3:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not on an FDC, so it's just another Penny Black, regardless of when it was actually printed. Unless one had the actual full first sheet signed by the printer and the postmaster at the time, why would anyone really care?
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Posted 10/26/2021   4:10 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plainly a lot of people do.
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Posted 10/26/2021   4:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I owned the first first US stamp once. Really, I did.
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Posted 10/26/2021   4:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Color me simple, but each plate was only used to print 1 sheet of stamps? If not, how does anyone know that this in fact is **THE** first penny black? Yes there's collateral accompanying the stamp, but that still doesn't prove that it was the first one (and wouldn't there actually be potentially multiple "first ones" given that an entire sheet was printed)?

Seems more puffery than substance. What am I missing?


Documentation. Perkins, Bacon & Petch archives.?

See the other thread on this topic. It contains a link to Sotheby's website: https://www.sothebys.com/en/press/s...-penny-black

The Wallace Document has the following annotation by Mr. Wallace.


Quote:
"1st Proof of Penny Postage Stamp Cover, presented to Mr Wallace by Mr The Right Honble The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Francis Thornhill Baring April 10th 1840."

"Universal Penny Postage Fly or Loose Stamp, presented to me Mr. Wallace as above."

"These come into public use on the 6th of May."


The "as above" may refer to the Penny Black being from a "1st Proof of" and "presented to Mr Wallace by Mr The Right Honble The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Francis Thornhill Baring April 10th 1840."

Since plate 1 was not registered until 15 April 1840, the date of 10 April would be consistent with a proof printing. That is unlikely to have been a print run.
From the articles, it appears the provenance and maybe the history have been researched and confirmed.

It might very well have been established this stamp presented on 10 April 1840 came from a first printing of the stamp from that original plate.
If so, it would indeed be one of the first adhesive postage labels ever printed that was issued as such.

I agree it, at best, will have been one of the first. As I remarked in that other thread, if the direction of printing was one way, it does not even make the top 228.
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Edited by NSK - 10/26/2021 5:00 pm
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Posted 10/26/2021   5:45 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I read "as above" as referring to the presentation by Baring, rather than the "proof" element. I wondef what the certs say?
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Posted 10/26/2021   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wondef what the certs opinions say?
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Posted 10/26/2021   6:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Plainly a lot of people do.

Yes, but nearly all of them are simply collectors who cannot actually come close to affording the item. It remains to be seen how many collectors might be willing to shell out $5-$7 million for it.
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Edited by revcollector - 10/26/2021 6:35 pm
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Posted 10/26/2021   7:08 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Actually, if the sheet from which this example came was printed from the top down, it was among the 12 first stamps. If it was printed from the bottom up, it does not make the top 228."

How were these printed? By a flat plate (in which case there is no direction, right) or by a curved/rotary plate (in which case there would ve a direction)
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