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More On R152 Varieties - Recuts Or Double Transfers?

 
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Valued Member

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Posted 10/27/2021   4:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add locals4me to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Poll Question:
Considering how many stamps were printed, it is amazing that we do not find many varieties on these stamps. Of course, flyspecking on these blue on blue stamps is hard on the eyes, and throw in the silk paper varieties and you tire quickly. I've looked at thousands, and have thousands more I have not inspected. Here are a few examples. Note the top frame lines at left and right - I believe these are often recuts made to strengthen the design after the plate had worn. There are similar "extra" lines at the bottom left of some stamps, some would call them double transfers but if so why only a single extra line?
The pair of stamps is actually from a block and these are two positions in the top row, showing one stamp sitting higher compared to its neighbor to the left. Was the bottom line added for appearance's sake?
John Bowman






Choices:
yes
no

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Valued Member
United States
50 Posts
Posted 10/27/2021   4:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add locals4me to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry - having to experiment to increase file size to maximum allowable. Click image to enlarge.

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Edited by locals4me - 10/27/2021 4:48 pm
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Posted 10/27/2021   8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion
No,
There a 5 lines, counting up from the lower frame, till it meets the vertical shaded area under "2"

In your assumed added line, this is just a lighter impression, perhaps from plate wear.

I've yet to see anything that impresses me as a "double transfer" on
any of these, possibly wishful thinking.
"Re cuts" maybe.

I get these often in random auction lots, I was not aware there is a silk paper, how do I identify those please?

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Edited by rod222 - 10/27/2021 8:10 pm
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Posted 10/27/2021   8:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod, you probably know granite papers with embedded threads of various size and fineness. US silk paper is similar but the threads are spread out in the paper matrix so that there might be only one or two in a stamp. So you'll have to check both sides of stamp. Use something like "US revenue stamp silk paper" it as a search term and you should be able to find images that show a/the thread(s) prominently.

Of course, tiny threads can always get stuck on the back of stamp. Plus there are a lot of people that mistake stamps with brown or black specks of paper impurities as being silk paper.
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Posted 10/27/2021   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Aha!
Thanks HB ! Yes I recognise granite well, should be easy to
find threads, as you describe.

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7628 Posts
Posted 10/27/2021   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hy-brazil-you are confusing different kinds of revenue silk papers. It is true that EXPERIMENTAL SILK has only a few threads, often only one or two. But the regular silk papers of the second, third, fourth and fifth issues (up to this 1875 era two cent), and the proprietary issues of the same era have many obvious threads.
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Posted 10/27/2021   9:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Edit: I see your other thread with additional photos. I am reviewing that and may change what is written below. 2nd Edit: Bold text below has been added after reviewing a complete transfer in your other thread.

Can you post the pair photo again but with the ability to enlarge it as you did with photos in your other thread? This may lead to seeing other DT elements hidden or implied by the size of the current photo.

I see something different on the joined pair, locals4me. You are correct the two images were not entered into the plate at the same horizontal position with entry being higher in relation to the other. With just two entries, while the right one seems high, one cannot determine which is properly placed and which is not. That said, what I see on the right image is a short transfer at the bottom based solely on the pair shown. The curved heavy element at the extreme corners was impressed into the plate, but not as deep as normal while the visible bottom horizontal line was not properly impressed and thus is broken and lacks the same dimension and quantity of ink as it should have had. With seeing a complete transfer in your other thread, I can now see this as a DT. As I have no ready comparison at hand and the photos you provided are too small for me to see I cannot state if one more horizontal line, below the broken one is missing. I can see that is not the case.

A short transfer occurs when the sideographer does not impress the full transfer roll image on to the printing plate, either at top, bottom or both. The width of the design, as measured across the transfer roll is normally fully impressed, unless the transfer roll or plate area has been damaged.

The sideographer "trying again" can result in a double or triple transfer. Not trying again but cutting in the design elements by hand results in a recut even though the plate has not yet gone to press thus not suffering wear.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 10/27/2021 10:35 pm
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