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Dutch Perforation Variety From 1870 Added In A 21st Century Catalog?

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Valued Member

Netherlands
5 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add JanDoggen to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm updating my new 2022 Dutch special catalog with the entries I marked in my previous 2005 version.

The national coat of arms issue NVPH 13-18 (1869-1871) now shows a variant 13B that does not occur in the older catalogue.
The B variants "Comb performation 13 1/4 small holes" only had the 1, 1.5 and 2 cent stamps, but now the 0.5 cent is also listed as number 13B.



I did some asking around and the variant 13B was introduced in the 2007 version of the NVPH special catalogue.
Nothing is mentioned about the new addition.



How is it possible that a perforation variety like this is discovered/added after 136 years?
Things like new plate information, or distinguishing more colors, I can understand, but a new perforation?

Bonus question: Is there any specific information about this 'discovery'? My Google skills have failed so far...
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United States
5679 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   1:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like to give you my opinion to your question . Catalogs don't list items unless there is a demand for the item and until dealers start listing it in their price list and stocking it or try to stock it .
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United States
5679 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   1:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a sample of a lot of the stamps that are in my collection but no catalog lists them ,hopefully someday in the future they may list some of them .I include these but who else even cares about them .
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4084 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   2:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Catalogs don't list items unless there is a demand for the item and until dealers start listing it in their price list and stocking it or try to stock it

Or is it the other way around ... that there is little demand for something until it is listed in a catalog and then the dealers have a consistent basis for listing it?
I suspect some of both ways.

Also, discovery and catalog listing are two events often quite distant in time, typically requiring vetting (certification), publication in the specialty literature, or discovery of additional copies.
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United States
525 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   2:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Calstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

FT: Care to elaborate as to the four stamps you posted? Assume they're part of the 1921 Gustav V series.

What, in your opinion, sets them apart from the "run-of-the-mill" unwatermarked low catalogue issue?

Thanks in advance.
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Canada
171 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   2:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add j2186 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These listings have also mystified me.

At first glance, both B and C are listed as "comb 13 1/4 small holes" but B as thick paper, and C as thin paper. So perhaps it is just a paper variety.

Digging a little deeper, the only detailed description of Netherlands perforations I know of is "Handboek Der Postwaarden van Nedelandsch-Indie" (1923). There on page 212, I found:

3: 13 1/2:13 1/2 (1869)

4: 13 1/4:13 1/4 (1870-1871)

In further detail, 3 varies horizontally from 13 3/8 to 13 3/4 while 4 varies from 13 1/8 to 13 1/2. So different gauges, but there is some overlap. If these measurements are correct, the NVPH is incorrect in its description of the B comb. I am not certain about any of this, though.

Here is a picture showing a block with each comb:







I would like to learn more about this.

Jan

PS: You will find other new varieties listed in the new catalogue, see for example numbers 236 and 237.

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Canada
171 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   3:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add j2186 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Checking through my old NVPH catalogues, up to at least 1978 there is no mention made of the B and C combs on this issue. They are mentioned by 1985. So for the first time at least a century after issue.

Given that very few people know how to tell the difference (due to the vague and/or incorrect description) it shouldn't be surprizing that the 1/2 cent value was missed.

Jan
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Posted 11/17/2021   3:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think that new additions to specialized catalogs have much to do with demand or dealer lists but rather that they are specialized. Russia is loaded with perforation varieties that have been known to Scott for years but the perforation varieties are left to the specialized catalogs. The order of thoroughness is interesting as well. Scott is least thorough, next comes Michel, than Zagorsky followed by Liapin and finally Zverev. Each one gets more and more thorough and specialized in all kinds of ways.

I suspect that is what went on here. That and a passionate collector advocating for an items inclusion. How many people collecting based upon Scott and Michel would seek out this perforation variety?
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United States
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Posted 11/17/2021   4:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I mount those four stamps above for the different shades . The Scott Catalog and my Steiner pages have room for one stamp . There may be some of the above listed shades in specialised catalogs but being a Worldwide collector ,I am not about to purchase 200 different specialized catalogs, same with perforations Scott lists a range of perforations if I find a difference in perfs. like shades I just add them to the page and write a note below it . Hoping sometime in the future Scott adds more detail to the variety .
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United States
525 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Calstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

FT: Thx for the explanation. I follow similar practice for Malaya and States. For me the challenge is assessing the validity of actual "shade" varieties versus poor prior (collector) care of the stamp.
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Australia
34086 Posts
Posted 11/17/2021   8:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I collect ROMANIA as a specialty, often in Scott, text reads..
"There exists a miniature sheet of 4 Lei " $4 cancelled $6
(for example)

I often wonder why Scott does not afford a Catalogue number.
There a quite a few of these orphans.

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United States
683 Posts
Posted 11/18/2021   02:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Paul, the third of your stamps is on the white paper they started using in the middle 30s. The first two look like the same shade to my eyes, but we all k now how scans can be deceptive. The fourth is interesting, maybe a postal forgery?
BTW, I'm missing the white paper version myself.
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Edited by billsey - 11/18/2021 02:02 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2049 Posts
Posted 11/18/2021   03:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Catalogs are maddingly inconsistent. For Commonwealth KGVI Gibbons lists some shades that are virtually impossible to differentiate, yet doesn't list some quite obvious shades that can be tied to specific printings (and thus a known date). A good number of these shades are listed in the Commonwealth catalog.

As to Floortrader's stamps, Facit does list 4 total varieties for the pictured stamp, including the white paper printing. There are 2 shades described as "olivish grey" and both have high catalog value for mint and used (10-11 times higher in cat value than the original printing). The white paper issue is not especially valuable and is attributed to 1935. Of the 4, it has the lowest value.

To my eyes, Floortrader may have all 4 printings/listings as I do see, at least on his images, 4 distinct shades. Most issues from this set have multiple varieties listed in Facit.
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Valued Member
Finland
145 Posts
Posted 11/18/2021   05:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kuikka to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Floortrader,

I am also a whole world collector. I do attempt to get specialized catalogues when possible if I have enough stamps to benefit from specialized catalogue. However, I do mostly get them from the second hand market. That they they usually cost less than 10 per catalogue. The prices are outdated but the information is not. There are also (semi-)specialized catalogues that cover multiple countries, such as SG part 1, Facing Nordic, Malaysia-Singapore-Brunei catalogue and with such catalogues the number needed drops fast. That is one possibility for you to think.
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Posted 11/18/2021   06:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some discoveries are not made until much later in time. Sometimes it has to do with what the discovery is about and how many specialists have been looking closely at the detail that was discovered. Also, the quantity of the item also plays a roll in how many there are around that can or cannot be easily discovered or noticed as being somehow slightly different. Other discoveries are known for some time but the catalogues may not have bothered to list them at all before even though they are legitimate post office issues while illegitimate ones may get listed. Sometimes a change of editors or publishers results in listing changes such as some items being added while other items being removed. The most recent catalogues should have the most updated information. It is always interesting to note when certain changes are first made.
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Edited by jogil - 11/18/2021 06:33 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2049 Posts
Posted 11/18/2021   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Facit page of some, though not all definitives discussed in Floortrader's post. Has great enhanced my interest in collecting more of them.


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