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Dropping Items Out Of A Catalog - Stamps That Aren't Traceable For N Years -True Scarcity, Or Gone?

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Posted 12/01/2021   12:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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At Stampshow 2019, I left a small stack of photocopies and a cover note with the Scott catalog staff about a couple of errors and suggestions for a better numbering of certain issues. Poof! Fast forward, the 2021 catalog incorporates both my corrections and suggestions. Easy!


In the year 2021 you would think that you could submit things online. Why are we still dealing with hand delivered photocopies and notes. Heck, I request prescription refills and access my health info through a portal and can start my vehicle from my phone amongst other things. Scott can't have a website that allows people to interact with them? Crazy
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Posted 12/01/2021   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Why are we still dealing with hand delivered photocopies and notes


Umm. Because that's the way I wanted to do it. It was faster to make copies and add handwritten notes to the margins, hi-lite certain lines, etc.

I was able to have a productive face-to-face conversation with a real person! Quite enjoyable.
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Posted 12/01/2021   12:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John - That is great what is the alternative if someone wanted to submit an error online? Email Scott Publishing?
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Posted 12/01/2021   12:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No idea. No need for me to ever find out. Ask them.
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Edited by John Becker - 12/01/2021 12:56 pm
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Posted 12/01/2021   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have emailed their editor, and they seem to always respond. Which is good. Sometimes good responses...But....you may not like the response. and get something along the lines of `I wish I could provide additional guidance, but perhaps the American Philatelic Research Library could help'. Clearly not the right answer for a publisher making a claim a stamp exists.

They should be able to say, we used certificate 12345 from the philatelic foundation and some additional data points here as well. Here's an anonymized pdf with some liner notes how this listing came to be. Heck, this would be a service I'd pay for.


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Posted 12/01/2021   2:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could someone offer an example or two of a listing for a stamp that they believe didn't/doesn't exist? I don't mean a listing they suspect to be a forgery, or a listing with a mistake; I mean, "I don't believe this ever existed, prove me wrong."
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Posted 12/01/2021   3:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are a couple of types of issues that come to mind when talking about stamps that "do not exist" but actually do. Stamps that were listed in Scott based upon new issue status and were then withdrawn by the postal authority and are not considered as "real". Stamps that are so rare that one copy was known and subsequently disappeared, whether into a collection or because they were stolen or destroyed etc.. Russia has a number of the first type that I am aware of.

Instead of spending time and money on attempting to prove a negative why not work on adding items that undeniably exist but are absent.

The logic behind Scott listings at times mystifies me. They will add endless minor varieties to some issues and use a catchall note to allude to others that are popularly collected.

Having a catalog number for a stamp that I likely will never locate is nothing compared to inaccurate color, perforation and pricing information that is carried over edition after edition.

I am not criticizing Scott because I think that theirs is a herculean task. On the other hand, aside from new issues, the rest of the information is all carry over and the only work to do IS to ferret out errors and omissions and perhaps flesh out existing information.

Scott has always walked the ridge IMO when it comes to being specialized or general in nature for WW material.

If you start down the path of removing items that in your judgement do not exist because they have not been on the market for "X" period you effectively "cancel" them and potentially stymie curiosity and research.
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Posted 12/01/2021   3:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GB 1911 SG327var Mint
Stock Code: P14511725
https://www.stanleygibbons.com/prod...27var-mint-1


Quote:
1911 1d Carmine (Perf.14). Very fine unused o.g. example of this rare and controversial stamp. The original source find emanates from a block of four that was found and subsequently illustrated in the "British Philatelist" in June 1915. Although reported at the time as having been issued from the Post Office it is almost certainly of proof status and was originally listed by SG as No. 327a (Spec. N7e), however in 1993 they were erroneously stated to be fakes and removed from the catalogue. Subsequent research has proven this to be incorrect and the stamp will again be given a full catalogue listing in the next specialised Vol.2. From the original block of four one now resides in the Royal Philatelic Collection leaving only three examples available to collectors, this being the lower right hand stamp from the original block. Ex Ferrary (1925) and Chartwell. 1964 BPA Cert.
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Posted 12/01/2021   6:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are so many classic_paper and for some obvious reasons I choose keep them to myself, for the mere fact that if they do pop up, I don't want to compromise my own decades of efforts. A few months ago, I went on a deep dive for a 1556d and believe PF 287677 was used to substantiate 1 of the 2 findings. It was submitted by Jacques Schiff a renowned error dealer. Bill Lang's tried to sell it on hipstamp forever... This was the old listing https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/15...-jn/20164220

This is all documented in a Linns article (which I can provide). I am still researching the 2nd one, which is the stamp pictured in the error catalog. To me that has yellow dots, and is a standard regular old 1556. It's especially blatent, when you put a 1556a, next to a 1556b, and see what the difference is between the yellows.

So I don't believe there is a "no dotted yellow 1556", that also has red litho or red offset (which the catalog doesn't distinguish between either for the record).


It's a challenging stamp, and I think the editors don't have it right. I could be wrong, but have seen nothing to the contrary, or can find no evidence of the real McCoy and believe it's misidentified. I own a bunch of 1556a in my quest to trying to find one and all evidence I've gathered and the years of one popping up just hasn't happened. I'd have expected a sheet, a block, more than one... something...
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Posted 12/01/2021   6:53 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How much of this is related to catalog inclusions which were driven by fame/fortune seekers vs. actual academic pursuits?

I assume that catalog editors are constantly pressured to include various varieties from those who either want to be known as a 'discoverer' or want a stamp they own to be listed so it increases the value of their holdings. Does the intent of the submitter matter to catalog publishers? If I am peppering a catalog publisher with my recent 'finds' I assume that they will get tossed into the garbage since it is so obviously self-serving. Ditto if I make submissions based upon my desire to get varieties listed which I own (or a dealer who has 'come into' procession of printer's waste 'errors'). Does the picture change if a person makes a submission based upon actual academic research and there is no self-serving interest?

Catalog/album inclusion criteria have never been transparent and we have discussed this in other threads. And in the same vein, delisting criteria are also opaque. But this is an important topic ONLY because we, as collectors, seem to be enslaved to collecting 'by catalog/albums'. If we do not have a catalog entry or an album space are we lost? Do we really need some publisher, who's objective is to make a profit, to tell us what to collect or how to collect it? I find myself caring less and less what is or is not in some catalog or album.

If a person is doing true academic pursuit, getting information published can occur in many ways other than a catalog or album. Never has there been a better time to move away from this catalog/album dependency. Being able to do discovery and find information at little or no cost is literally at our fingertips. Designing and making our own album pages has never been easier or faster. Other solutions including Vario style mounting options storage abound.
Don
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Posted 12/01/2021   8:27 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Having a catalog number for a stamp that I likely will never locate is nothing compared to inaccurate color, perforation and pricing information that is carried over edition after edition."

If you know of errors in the catalog, tell the editors (and why you think the listing is wrong). They can't fix errors they are not aware of.
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Posted 12/01/2021   8:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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If you know of errors in the catalog, tell the editors (and why you think the listing is wrong). They can't fix errors they are not aware of.


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Posted 12/03/2021   8:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add roadrunner88 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"if you know of errors in the (Scott) catalog, tell the editors....." I emailed the editor several years ago about an error. Never got a reply.

If I go to GASS in 2022, I may try again with a photocopy of the problem, if Scott attends.
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Posted 12/03/2021   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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I emailed the editor several years ago about an error. Never got a reply.


Yup. That is why I suggested that it would be helpful for Amos/Scott to have a way to submit online other then hoping someone opens the mail and actually does something constructive with it.
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Posted 12/03/2021   9:31 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The inane part of this is that it takes about 5 minutes to setup an online submission form with an automated emailed respond which might read something like "Thank you for your submission. Our staff will review your input and give it the attention it deserves". (Sorry, my tongue in cheek a bit there but you get the idea.) It would appease folks who desire an input mechanism and requires no real-time human responses for the company. A form like this is not only easy to implement but it also represents a good starting point for any internal revision process. Kind of a IT 101 'no brainer'.
Don
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