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Victorian Numeral Cancel Queries

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Valued Member
Australia
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Posted 01/28/2023   11:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Boreraig to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wondered about that myself, but it looks perfect. It wouldhave to have been done by someone with access to the right punch. Supporting the theory however is that it is a mint stamp.
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Posted 01/28/2023   11:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Always a possibility, especially when you look at some of the catalogue values.
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Posted 01/29/2023   12:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I take from the note in Gibbons that the 11-pin "S" has to have the "NSW" as well?


Not seen it confirmed anywhere else.

As I mentioned, it does exist, OS without NSW, but the "O" 11pin is assymetrical (slanted)

Also there is conjecture as to placements of the OS NSW 11 pin punctures.

I would think any random, inverted etc puncture would have been addressed somewhere, or images existing.

This is a curly one indeed.
Look forward to a solution, not opened Brusden White ACSC as yet.

The poster has failed to offer the Puncture dimensions
so working with incomplete information.
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Edited by rod222 - 01/29/2023 12:49 am
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Posted 01/29/2023   01:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Collectors are warned that scarce OS perforations and varieties
double perf, OS etc, are being skilfully faked to the present day,
and have been for a number of years. Such items are difficult to expertise.
Forged overprints are also known, some clumsy, some dangerous.

ACSC 1980 Page 9
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Posted 01/29/2023   01:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OFFICIALS PUNCTURED
These consisted of letters perforated through the stamps to denote intended official user. Two categories were introduced for this value (a) Stamps issued, already letter punctured, by the Post Office to Federal and States' Departments, and (b) Stamps issued unpunctured by the Federal Post Office, and punctured subsequently by the two States of New South Wales and Tasmania for use by their own Departmental Offices.

It appears that both categories were current from July 1914 to October 1931 in various printings in the red, violet, and green colour groups, but not necessarily in every printing shade of each group.
The punctures were of circular pin holes arranged to form the required letters. For category (a) the letters O S were perforated, the O by twelve pins and the S by eleven pins. These letters were 8.5 mm. in height, with maximum widths for the O of 6 mm., and for the S of 5.5 mm. with 4 mm. spacing between them, giving a total width of 15.5 mm.

This puncture was effected to one horizontal row of stamps at a time and may be found on both Die I and Die II stamps.
The writer has not yet discovered it on Die III but has not noted any report to the contrary. It may be found double, inverted, and sideways in some of the red group printings. Each of these errors is somewhat scarce and the first two exist in Dies I and II.

Bib: The 1d George V Australian Commonwealth Stamps
Surface printed types 1914 -1937

A study by D. M. Neil (1947)
Page 68

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Edited by rod222 - 01/29/2023 01:34 am
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Australia
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Posted 01/29/2023   01:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Boreraig to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rod222 and others. You are goldmines of information.
I suspect my SO is real. It has been untouched for at least 30 years. In its own little envelope amongst hundreds of other KGV's perforated OS, so I think dad must have put it aside. I put another 1d red upside down on top of it, both facing up and the holes match perfectly. Dad was rather dismissive of OS perforations and overprints so it would be fitting for his rarest stamp to be one.Does anyone know an enthusiast near Riddells Creek in Victoria who could look at it.
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Posted 01/29/2023   01:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Now the tough bit.

Most collectors, seek and imagine their special stamps, to be the most exotic.
What you feel, summise, opine, etc, is confetti, and means little
until you get it confirmed by the experts.

Keeping a level head whilst all the imaginations swirl around on what may be,
the good philatelist should be reserved and seek the truth.

Get your example certified by an expert, pay for a signed certificate
then come back and brag the result, if you are correct, you have earned it.

Not only will you have found an apparent scarcity, but more importantly,
you have added to the Australian knowledge base.

A very worthy trip!
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Edited by rod222 - 01/29/2023 01:54 am
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Posted 01/29/2023   03:23 am  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 64idgaf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone know an enthusiast near Riddells Creek in Victoria who could look at it.


I don't think normal certifying bodies (RPSoV, Chris Ceremuga, Scott Starling) will provide certificates for punctures.

The 30 y/o envelope is good provenance though.
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Posted 01/29/2023   3:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, first things first.

Could we please have a moderator split this topic off?

The title could be "Australia 1d KGV with inverted OS puncture" or something like that. Ta much



Now, I did some more research and Robson Lowe mentions on page 338 of the Australasia Encyclopedia that the 1d is known with the OS inverted. This will be a second watermark stamp.

An example was in the Julian Sterling auction, part 3 (Mossgreen August 2014) with an estimate of $800-$1000 but I don't have the prices realised. That was the only one I could find, but as we know, just because something is rare doesn't mean it's worth a fortune!

It's important to keep in mind that, just because the stamp has been in an envelope for 30 years, that is no guarantee of genuineness.

If the stamp is to be auctioned it would benefit from having a certificate. Boreraig is in Victoria so I would suggest the RPSV. If they can't help, Chris Ceremuga in Sydney would be your best bet.

If it was mine with that sort of family connection I wouldn't be selling it, for love nor money.
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/29/2023 3:23 pm
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Posted 01/29/2023   4:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The following seems to confirm, punctures at one row at a time.
I'd suggest a pin die in the Grover perforator ?

It is obvious the stamp sheets are advancing one row at a time.

(Moss Green, Arthur Gray Collection 2016)

I would also expect Mr. Gray to have one in his collection, (Inverted OS) but I only have Part 2 catalogue.

If these following forgeries have been identified, it suggests someone, somewhere is expertising these stamps.




http://stampforgeries.com/



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Edited by rod222 - 01/29/2023 4:24 pm
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Posted 01/29/2023   5:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would also expect Mr. Gray to have one in his collection


It was the first catalogue I checked, and it's not there

Absent from Baillee and Chartwell also.
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/29/2023 5:28 pm
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Posted 01/29/2023   5:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Absent from Baillee and Chartwell also.


Envious of your Sir Gawaine Baillie Catalogue, wow what a collection that fellow had. (est $26 million dollars 2005)
Chartwell is unknown to me.


Tight corners lured Gawaine Baillie to Australian racetracks and imperfect stamp
edges drew him to the post office.

By Amanda Dunn.

Stamp collecting and car racing are not activities that immediately go together, yet both found a passionate follower in the late Sir Gawaine Baillie, an amateur racing car driver and engineer who amassed a collection of more than 100,000 stamps of the British Empire during his lifetime.

This includes an Australian section containing some rare examples from our philatelic past, all unused and in mint condition, to be auctioned by Sotheby's in Melbourne this week and expected to raise between $1.3 million and $1.75 million. The entire collection, which is being sold in a series of 10 auctions in London, Melbourne and New York over two years, is estimated to be worth more than $26 million.

Sotheby's philatelic expert Richard Ashton, who knew Sir Gawaine, said the
collection was unique because, whereas most philatelists preferred to concentrate their collecting on one country or even part of a country, Sir Gawaine collected from many countries.

In my lifetime, Gawaine is the only man who has gone out and
collected on such... a wide level," said Mr Ashton, who is in Melbourne for the
auction.

Born in 1934 at Leeds Castle in Kent, Sir Gawaine was educated at Eton and later Cambridge University before starting his own engineering company. As an amateur racing car driver, he drove against stars of the track such as Stirling Moss and Mike Hawthorn. One of his career highlights was winning at Longford, Tasmania, in 1965.

Mr Ashton remembers Sir Gawaine as a shy man, whose vast collection of stamps came as a surprise even to family and friends following his death in 2003. An early riser, he would devote four hours every morning to his collection over 30 years, gathering stamps from Australia, New Zealand, the West Indies, North America, Africa and Britain. In his collection were rareties such as a British Penny Black from 1840, the world's first postage stamp.

In the philatelic world, a flaw or a peculiarity in a stamp or series of stamps can
spectacularly increase their value. One of the highlights of Sir Gawaine's Australian collection, for example, is a strip of four three- pence "kangaroo" stamps from 1913.

The perforations between the stamps are missing on all four rows. While this mayhave been an annoyance to the purchaser at the time, nowadays, perfectly preserved, it is of great value, and the stamps are expected to raise $75,000 to $87,500.

Another set of two stamps from 1922 to 1924, featuring the head of King George V in violet, is a rarity because it is missing the perforation between them. It is valued at $30,000 to $35,000.

Others are valuable for their age and history - the collection contains stamps from the colonies dating back to 1850, and a sheet of 20 five-shilling stamps commemorating the opening of the Sydney Harbour Bridge in 1932 that features a sketch of the nation's new landmark.

But stamps do not have to be old to be valuable. A strip of five stamps from 1987 to 1988, featuring drawings of an array of native animals, has the rare quirk of missing the strip at the top with "Australia, 37c" on it. Thought to be one of two such strips in the world, it is valued at $2500 to $3500.

One of Sir Gawaine's last purchases was a full sheet of stamps, in two lots of 10
stamps, celebrating the gold medal win of Australia's 4 x 200 metre men's relay
swimmers at the Sydney 2000 Olympics. At first glance, it seems unremarkable, but on closer inspection the sheet has been printed upside down, which means the perforations are not aligned with the borders of the stamps.

Again, it's a winning combination of peculiarity and rarity. Mr Ashton said this
particular sheet, one of only two of its kind known in the world, was valued at $5000 to $6000.

Sir Gawaine Baillie's collection is on view at Sotheby's Melbourne from 11am to 5pm, July 11 to 13, with auctions from July 13 to 15.

Copyright 2005. The Age Company Ltd.

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Edited by rod222 - 01/29/2023 5:51 pm
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Australia
74 Posts
Posted 01/29/2023   10:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Boreraig to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
64IDGAF, I see you are from Geelong. I gave 6 Vic Cancels No. 2 to the Brighton Philatelic Society last week but have found another 18 since then. I am 83 and on oxygen. My wife has threatened to throw out the stamps if I don't do something with them. I have loved this stamp board and the information you are passing on, but it is not helping me get rid of any stamps.
If you would like my No. 2's I am happy to send them to a post office address. I don't want any money.

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Posted 01/30/2023   01:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rod,

Chartwell is Sir Cyril Humphrey Cripps.

Spink auctioned his collection around 2018. I only have the Australia & Colonies catalogue.
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Posted 01/30/2023   01:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bobby,

I had to smile whilst Googling
"Sir Cyril Humphries - industrialist and stamp collector"

It seemed so incongruent.

https://www.thestampblog.com/sir-cy...-cripps.html

Nice fashion, I hope the buckled shoe comes back in....
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Edited by rod222 - 01/30/2023 02:04 am
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