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Bermuda KGVI 1938 Series Color Varieties

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 502Next Topic  
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Posted 12/18/2021   09:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add angore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
For the 1˝p issue, Scott lists 2 varieties and SG lists 3.

Scott
119 vio brn and blue
119a dull vio brn and blue (1943)

SG
111 dp blue and pur brn - in perf 11.9 and 11.9x11.75
111a blue and brown - in 11.9 only (1943)
111b lt blue and pur brown - in perf 11.9 and 11.9x11.75

I have these two. There are both perf 11.9.



This is what a dealer on hipstamp identified as 111, 111a, 111b. I see no difference color-wise.


Any other clues to tell these apart. If I was using SG I would guess it was 111a. If SG's date matches Scott this would be 119a.
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Al
Edited by angore - 12/18/2021 10:00 am

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Posted 12/18/2021   10:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
looks to me your 2 stamps are 119a and 119.
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Posted 12/18/2021   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
See if this scan helps
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Posted 12/18/2021   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you looked at Delcampe? Use of SG numbers is more common for British commonwealth there. Quick check and I saw all of 111,a & b.
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Posted 12/18/2021   4:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floortrader, in your images I do see a darker inking on the left most stamp but really do no difference in the purple brown, My eyes are just not that good in seeing a real color difference.
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Al
Edited by angore - 12/18/2021 4:43 pm
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Posted 12/18/2021   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cherrystone has this block of SG111b (Scott 119) for sale:

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Posted 12/18/2021   6:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ANGORE --Here is a better scan for the shades of the frame .
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Edited by floortrader - 12/18/2021 6:22 pm
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Posted 12/18/2021   6:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Take a look at this for all of the varieties in high resolution and zoomable:

http://www.kgvistamps.com/PageScans...muda-P23.jpg

The main website:

http://www.kgvistamps.com/PageScans.../Bermuda.htm
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Posted 12/19/2021   06:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam, I did look at the website but obviously did not look in the right place. I will need to study. I am sure I could never tell them apart without a reference set.

floortrader, I assume the middle stamp is SG111b (lt blue). SG111 (drk blue) and then 111a.

If I was creating a catalog, I think the perf varieties would warrant more coverage than the shades.
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Al
Edited by angore - 12/19/2021 07:14 am
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Posted 12/19/2021   10:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGVIStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with trying to identify King George VI stamps from the catalog descriptions with two or three stamps is the fact that there were a number of printings and they differ in some subtle ways from each other. The catalogs generally start with the description of the first issue and then if there is a significant change from the first issue they post that new description. But if you don't actually have a first printing you are not using an accurate starting point in your comparison. So you really have to accumulate a bunch of them to do it right.
It also helps to have a list of the printings and descriptions for each of them. This will give you a reference to use as you make your comparisons. The Bermuda Collectors Society published a detailed catalog that lists all of the printings and describes them. I used this as a starting point and then looked for stamps that seemed to match the descriptions. I then associated the Commonwealth, Gibbons and Scott catalog numbers with each printing. You can see the results in the scan below which shows the stamps as I identified them.
In the case of the Bermuda lower values, they were printed by Bradbury, Wilkinson so there are not big perforation changes like the ones you find with the Ceylon or KUT KGVI stamps. What you will find is a subtle change from a Line Perf that measures 11.9 that was used from 1938 until 1950 (Gibbons lists this as the a notation in the catalog); and a Comb Perf that measures 11.9 x 11.75 that was used from 1950 until 1952 (Gibbons lists this as a b notation in the catalog). You need a gauge like the Stanley Gibbons Instanta Gauge to measure the perforations accurately. The ones with the dots don't really work for close measurements like this. Don't be surprised if you don't have any of the Comb Perf issues. They are scarce.
After you separate the perforations, notice the paper and gum by looking at the back of the stamps. There were differences over time, typically the early issues were on thicker appearing paper with yellowish or off-white gum. During the war years thinner paper was used. After the war, the paper became thicker and the gum was whiter than early printings. See the scan below to see various Bradbury, Wilkinson printings over time. I look at the back of the stamps against black paper to see the differences. The Commonwealth and Gibbons Catalogs will list a date for the additional listings. Note the date and see if your stamp has the same attributes. It does help if you are using unused stamps so you can clearly see the paper and gum.
Once you separate the stamps by perforation and paper and gum, study the colors. There were some color changes but none are overwhelming. Notice the differences in the Browns compared to other stamps and then look at the Blue centers as you study your stamps. Try putting them on black paper and then on white paper under a strong light to make the comparisons.
I admit this is overkill for trying to decide between two catalog listings. But hopefully it will give you a framework on how to make your decisions.





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Posted 12/19/2021   11:20 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
…So you really have to accumulate a bunch of them to do it right…
… After you separate the perforations, notice the paper and gum by looking at the back of the stamps…
… It does help if you are using unused stamps so you can clearly see the paper and gum…
… Once you separate the stamps by perforation and paper and gum, study the colors…

Wise words from KGVIStamps. Beyond background color and ambient lighting color also influencing how we see colors, keep in mind that many people think themselves skilled at being able to identify color when the truth is that very few of us have good a color eye.

Not saying that this has happened in this thread, but time after time we have seen catalog entries differentiate a higher value stamp by color and then have hobbyists who 'confidentially' ID their stamps based solely upon color. These are the same folks who have gone to work with two different color socks on or have their spouse tell them to go change when they walk out with some badly matching clothes.

Especially after years of aging and unknown environmental conditions, color should be the last variable to be considered when IDing stamps. Catalog editors who bait hobbyists with inconsistent color names ought to have to invest their own time in answering and addressing the confusion they have made of this part of our hobby.
Don
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