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Measuring Head Size On 20th & 21st Century Circular Dies

 
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Posted 01/14/2022   12:07 pm  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add 3193zd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So to help determine die variety, I thought the head measurement on circular dies was from tip of nose to the shallowest part in the back of the head. Am I wrong, or is it some here above that area? Because in the UPSS the line is showing above the nape of the neck on all their images.

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Michael Darabaris

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Posted 01/14/2022   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Large" Head 9¼mm or 9½
"Small" Head 8¾-9mm
Measure from tip of nose a horizontal line to where it lands on the back of head.

Some say nape of neck, some say back of head. It appears to be a horizontal line that lands in different locations.

The 1 1/2 die illustration does add to the confusion.

I would take all die differentials into consideration.

I'm sure these have caused much discussion over the years.

(Updated per 3193zd comments)
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Edited by patg23 - 01/14/2022 3:15 pm
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Posted 01/14/2022   2:13 pm  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 3193zd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thats not what the UPSS catalog states it says to nape of neck. Also in Identifying the circular dies, the Washington/Franklins of US postal stationery by Bill Lehr, he shows measurement line angled down to nape of neck. also there is a larger head 9 1/2
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Michael Darabaris
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Posted 01/15/2022   08:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jobi01 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The line in the catalog falls where it does as an artifact of the paint program used to generate the line. The tip of the nose to nape (shallowest point) of the neck is where to measure the head size. Warning: sometimes the nose is bobbed (shortened) due to inkining or age of the die issues.
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Bill Lehr
US Postal Stationery Specialist
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Posted 01/15/2022   11:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Circular Dies are fun and relaxing" and watermarks and knifes and envelope size & color.

"Nape of neck" "Back of head" "Back of neck"

If (as said) an artifact from old illustrations of the paint program used to generate the lines, maybe time for new illustrations with consistent definitions.

I'm a big fan of the catalogs and guide, and can usually figure out the dies, so this is just a small rant

And this is only one part of ID'ing the correct UPSS number.
Looking at a lot of them it gets easier, and side by side comparison helps.
pat


Images from catalog.
First two say nape of neck, almost all others say back of head






From guide.
Only image that shows (how to) measure head for all values. Without explanation, seems a bit overexaggerated.



From Scott Specialized: "back of neck". Scott seems to point in the illustration from the general direction of the nostrils to where the curve of the head first meets the neck (not shallowest part). And you can see from this illustration you could miss judge with part of the nose tip covered in ink.

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Posted 01/26/2022   12:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Found my old 1990 hardback edition of the catalog.

Funny thing about the die descriptions then and now (2019 edition).

No back of head callout in 1990 Catalog or Circular Die Guide.

Circular Die Guide was published in 2014.

Wonder why the need to embellish the descriptions to some "back of head" in the current catalog?

ABC - Always Be Curious
Pat

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Posted 01/26/2022   07:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jobi01 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Head size may be obvious when there are several varieties side by side but head size can be very important when you have just one or several of the same or similar variety. Position of the figures of value are the main determining factor of die type. Until recently, catalog descriptions seemed to be simple reminders for experts to sort the different circular dies.
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Bill Lehr
US Postal Stationery Specialist
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Posted 01/26/2022   11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This post started out by 3193zd questioning how to determine head size.
I gave a quick answer based on current UPSS catalog (which was questioned).

On looking, found there was a variety of answers.

Still question why editors added "Back of Head".

Side by side is helpful.

Several points are helpful when looking at cancelled.

Looking at large amounts is helpful.

My representative set.
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