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2022 USA Flag Definitive - Differences Between Ap And Bca Printings?

 
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Posted 01/16/2022   01:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add DJCMHOH to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello all



Has anyone seen anything online regarding differences in the Ashton-Potter and Banknote Corporation of America versions of the new Flag definitive coil and booklet stamps released on 9 January? I am assuming there are going to be slight differences (Microprint location perhaps) but have not seen anything online that explains differences.
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Posted 01/16/2022   02:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have seen no information on the microprint (other than it will be used). From what I've read, it appears there will likely be 5 or 6 different stamps. APU produced double-sided booklets of 20 and coils of 100 ... that's 2. BCA produced panes of 20, double-sided booklets of 20 and coils of 100, 3K & 10K. At first glance, one would assume that this would be 3 different stamps (pane, booklet, coil). But BCA is supposedly using block tagging on the 100-stamp coils and overall tagging on the 3K & 10K rolls. So BCA could have 4 different, with one of the coils receiving a minor catalogue number (lower case letter appended to the number). But Scott doesn't always assign different catalogue numbers to individual stamps from panes & booklets. The tagging on the panes & booklets appears to be the same, so the BCA count could well be only 3. Of course, there would still be a catalogue number for the full CB20.
To further add to the confusion, there is what I think is a typo in the postal bulletin announcement. The APU coil is described as having a design size of 0.84 x 0.73 inches (width x height). All of the other flag sizes are given as 0.73 x 0.84. It seems highly unlikely to me that one of the coils would have a different size than all the other flags.

Another interesting difference in the coils is that both APU & BCA 100-stamp rolls will have plate numbers on every 31st stamp. For the larger BCA rolls, the plate numbers will be on every 27th stamp.

At a guess, I think the count will be 5 (no separate numbers for the BCA pane & booklet stamps) ... 4 major numbers & 1 minor (ignoring the CB20 minor number). Unless, of course, the specified BCA tagging difference is also a typo, in which case I would guess only 4.

Will be waiting for the February or March issue of Linn's to see how this all washes out.
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Posted 01/16/2022   08:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know if this adds anything.

https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamp...flags-stamps
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Posted 01/23/2022   9:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did see the eBay listing offering the coil, pane from the different printers. Just to have a stamp with the plate showing a difference of one letter among the stamps doesn't interest me. The most economical way to get stamps from each printer is to purchase the 100 stamp coil and 20 stamp pane. Sets you back about $71 but you will have plenty of first-class stamps to carry you through one or two projected price increases this year.

Also regarding commemorative stamp purchases, this means any of those coming later this year will be more expensive than the present ones. I suggest planning in advanced and being especially picky about your purchases --- 2022 will be a more expensive year anyway with the new Priority Mail and priority Mail Express stamps being issued in February and increased rates.
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Edited by chris s - 01/23/2022 9:42 pm
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Posted 01/26/2022   05:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Saw some of the new flags already being offered for sale on eBay. The BCA microprint (pane, booklet & coil) runs vertically along the flagpole on the leftmost flag ... towards the bottom edge of the flag.
The APU microprint (booklet & coil) is immediately above the field of stars on the rightmost flag ... this is the flag in the rightmost corner of the stamp.
chris s: You don't need to purchase entire coil rolls of these if you use Maurice Bessette's service (postmaster at Oneco, CT). In addition, he does not charge for shipping ... you only pay for the stamps. As I recall, there is a minimum number of coils you have to order, but usually it is significantly less than a full roll. You do need to send a personal check or money order in advance. I have his phone no. & address somewhere. Let me know if you are interested.
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Edited by JLLebbert - 01/26/2022 05:38 am
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Posted 01/28/2022   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add philatomic to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maurice will not break coils of 100 but will sell smaller quantities from the coils of 3000 and 10000. If you want a plate numbered stamp from a large roll, there will be a minimum quantity you'll have to purchase, 20 in the case of the new flag stamps and 30 for the 4c Blueberries, per a recent list form Maurice.
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Posted 01/28/2022   1:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Perf10 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maurice sounds like a good guy. When people order from him, is there any customary "thank you" that you include? For example, sending him some stamps, assuming he collects.
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Posted 02/05/2022   05:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just saw the January Linn's ... there are 6 different flags. APU has 2 of them ... booklet & coil. BCA has 4 ... pane, booklet & 2 coils. Didn't see any mention of tagging differences on the 2 coils, but the die-cut gauge is different (10.75 & 11). In addition, one is on taller backing paper with space between adjacent stamps ... the other has backing paper the same height as the stamp with no space between stamps.
In addition, the die-cut gauge is different on the BCA panes & booklets, hence the extra catalogue number.
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Edited by JLLebbert - 02/05/2022 05:19 am
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Posted 02/06/2022   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JLLebbert - Thanks for the info about Maurice's service. Yes I would be interested in contacting him for obtaining coils from large rolls. In particular, I would like to see if he could get me coil stamps of the Wild Orchids 2020 Forever first class stamp. Also would like to see if he could get me a booklet printed by APU and a coil of 25 from BCA.

So I have chosen 4 of the "possible" six. I came to this conclusion from the line of logic given below, if you have time to kill please read and correct me for any errors --- as I wrote I am new and this is when philately can seem complicated.

USPS advertises these possible 6 stamp designs:

BCA
20 stamp pane
20 stamp double-sided booklet
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)
3,000 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 31st stamp)
10,000 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 31st stamp)

APU
20 stamp double-sided booklet
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)


If I understand correctly, the difference between the pane and booklet designs, before the printers add their identification marks (microprint and plate number) is identical except for the minor difference of format. If one is to be a frugal completist, then we can make the 20 stamp pane optional. In addition, as the same printer is producing coils of 3,000 and 10,000 and both have the same recurrence of plate number, one can remove one of these coils. Let's remove the expensive 10,000 stamp coil. So now we have:

BCA
20 stamp booklet or 20 stamp pane
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)
3,000 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 31st stamp)

APU
20 stamp booklet
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)

Now we have 5 stamp designs but our frugal collector just sent in his monthly bills and his car needs repairs as well as there is a stamp auction coming up in a few months with some attractive goodies. Does one really need to get a 100 coil and 3,000 coil just because the recurrence of the plate number differs? Nah, let's get rid of the 3,000 coil. So we have, if I am correct, these 4 designs to obtain the coil and non-coil formats from both printers:

BCA
20 stamp booklet or 20 stamp pane
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)


APU
20 stamp booklet
100 stamp coil (plate number occurring every 27th stamp)

Notes:
1) Before February 2023 there is one cheaper option to getting a BCA roll of 100 coils. When calling Stamp Fulfillment Center ask for item number 750703 for 25 stamps with plate number from the BCA coil of 3,000 or 760903 for same quantity from same printer but the 10,000 coil roll.

2) February 2023 and afterwards, you will no longer be able to specify which printer you want coils and booklets. The order numbers will be reduced to two if you call Stamp Fulfillment with both showing the printer as APU. You may be able to get from the post office or online BCA printer stamps (100 roll coil, double sided pane booklets, and, possibly the 20 stamp pane if it remains available past this date) but it will be mostly the luck of the draw. And knowing how the secondary market will act, prices will go up on all formats due to the apparent scarcity of some formats being difficult to obtain (even though the production runs are high 50 - 500 million stamps).

This has been posted but here is a link to order numbers:
https://www.linns.com/insights/2022...tamp-program

And here is the article regarding designs and how long some will be sold by the USPS.
https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamp...flags-stamps

Finally here is the postal bulletin with all details about all formats of the stamps including planned production run (honestly higher than I ever thought - over 1 BILLION for some formats):
https://about.usps.com/postal-bulle...info_008.htm




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Edited by chris s - 02/06/2022 9:40 pm
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Posted 02/06/2022   7:14 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Note February 2023 and afterwards, only double-sided pane (booklet) and coil from APU (100 stamp coil) available from USPS."

Correction - after 1 year the natiobal philatelic center will no longer let collectors specify whether they want the APU or BCA verion, they will send out which ever one they feel like, which could be the BCA version, plus the BCA version may still be available at regular PO's.
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Posted 02/06/2022   8:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall - thanks for the correction. The USPS spokesperson was quoted as orders would be reduced to the two item numbers for the items I gave but I overlooked that part of the article which allows one could still receive say a BCA coil or pane stamp depending on luck.

In a way the USPS is doing this already if you order a coil of 100 solely online. I was lucky and received the APU coil roll of 100 and, of course, the 20 stamp pane was BCA. I plan to get via the Stamp Fulfillment order line a booklet of stamps from APU and one or two 25 stamp coils from a roll of 3,000 printed by BCA to obtain coil and pane from both printers. I'll have plenty of postage to last me for 2 years or more!
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Edited by chris s - 02/06/2022 8:53 pm
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Posted 02/07/2022   02:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
First, the info for contacting Maurice Bessette:
... Maurice Bessette
... 1104 Plainfield Pike
... Oneco, CT 06373
... 1-860-546-5601
As for the orchids, as I recall the USPS forced him to eliminate all pre-2121 stamps from his inventory during the spring/summer of 2121 ... and the orchids are a 2020 issue.

I stopped collecting modern U.S. stamps at the end of 2020. But, if I were still collecting, I would want all 6 of the 2022 flags. They are:
Scott# Vendor Format...........Die-Cut
5654....BCA....Pane-20.........11.25x11
5655....BCA....Roll-3K/10K...10.75 V
5656....BCA....Roll-100.........11 V
5657....APU....Roll-100.........9.5 V
5658....BCA....Booklet-20.....11.25x10.75
5659....APU....Booklet-20.....11.25x10.75

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Posted 02/22/2022   7:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The number for Maurice is NOT IN SERVICE. So looks like a blind ally unless it was miscopied.
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Posted 02/22/2022   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Think I switched around a couple of digits when I saved the phone number in my files. Try 564 in lieu of 546.
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Posted 02/24/2022   8:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah thanks for the correction.
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Posted 02/25/2022   8:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tried it today and got through to Maurice. Yeah seems like a nice guy.
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