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Help With Identification And Watermark Confirmation - Germany Iron Workers

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Posted 01/23/2022   8:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Mrita75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

Trying to make out this watermark to confirm ID of this German ironworker stamp. I believe I see an X toward the top left - however I am not sure. Maybe the hinge remnant is blocking my view. Your assistance is appreciated.

If I had to guess = Scott #144.


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Posted 01/23/2022   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yep Sc#144
Watermark seems correct, they are "multiple lozenges"
Vertically stretched diamonds,
They create negative "X's" between,
I think that is what you are seeing.
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Edited by rod222 - 01/23/2022 9:03 pm
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Posted 01/23/2022   9:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mrita75 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Rod. That is what I suspected - I have a mint one but the watermark is 126 network. Can I ask you - or anyone. This section in my catalogue where is talks about Six Marks and Eight Marks - as well as types, what is that in reference to? The Posthorn stamps? so the 10m would be six marks typeII? these German stamps are making my eyes cross ha! but they are a fin challenge.



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Posted 01/23/2022   10:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mrita75, what Scott is not telling you is that the posthorn "types" were printed by flat plate and rotary press. You can't tell the difference with the 2 mark - 5 mark stamps unless they are marginal copies with selvedge. The higher values, however, have differences in the shapes of the numerals. Unfortunately, Scott doesn't bother to illustrate these differences in their catalogs.

Also, You are showing stamps from 3 different series. The two-color posthorn stamps are from two different/other series.

Hope this helps. Trying to understand Germany stamps with Scott is a tough task, to say it politely.

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Edited by bookbndrbob - 01/23/2022 10:38 pm
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Posted 01/23/2022   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mrita75 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you bookbndrbob - Now I understand why I was a bit confused. I will have to read about these separately so that I understand at least some of the basic differences. I am sure a quick search here might help as well. Thank you for responding, I appreciate it. Nora.
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Posted 01/23/2022   10:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mrita75,

Take a look here.
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
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Posted 01/23/2022   11:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mrita75 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. Ahhh! I see. I have that wonderful site bookmarked and I forget to go there - shame on me. This is so very helpful. I think at the end of the day, I am realizing that the few album pages I printed are not sufficient (for me personally) - there are series and spaces for specific stamps missing and that is throwing me off. I just saw that I can download pages on GemanStamps.net. Thank you both for your advice. Nora.
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Posted 01/24/2022   07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hornet785 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

Also the thinner lace of the Posthorn and the smaller stars are other features of rotary press.

Best regards

Hornet
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Posted 01/24/2022   10:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also the thinner lace of the Posthorn and the smaller stars are other features of rotary press.


That is correct for most of the values but I cannot see it on the 20 M value. Even PostmasterGS's excellent images of the 20 M Michel 230P and 230W appear identical to me. Or is it just me that can't see it? Other than obtaining stamps with top selvedge how does one differentiate? Thanks.
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Posted 01/24/2022   10:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Would a USA flat plate vs rotary thread help?
Don't collect either of these, but I'm guessing there where similarities?
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Posted 01/24/2022   10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mrita75,

Welcome to German stamps! Yes, they can make your eyes cross.
If you are serious about collecting Germany in any detail, I would suggest you get a copy of the Michel-Spezial catalog. It's available in German and in English. If you get a German language version, Michel has a nice PDF file that translates most of the philatelic terms so you can use it without a knowledge of German. A used copy would be all you need.
The catalog has more detailed descriptions and illustrations than Scott.
Have fun!
Dan
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Posted 01/24/2022   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mrita75 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Dan,

Thanks, yes I was thinking I might see what I can find on discount in terms of a Michel. Postmasters site is amazing as well. The thing with Germany, as of course all the experts already know, is that it has a lot of twists and turns, and it appeals to my problem solving nature. Thanks Dan.
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Edited by Mrita75 - 01/24/2022 11:09 am
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Posted 01/24/2022   11:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mrita75,
Yes, PostmasterGS has an excellent site! If you like twists and turns, wait until you venture into the post-WW II era (1945 -49) There are all sorts of rabbit holes you can fall into!
Enjoy the ride!
Dan
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Posted 01/24/2022   4:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DeeBee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you have a postmark with a year date, you can sometimes determine the watermark since the network style appeared after the lozenge. Usually these German issues were printed on what I consider to be thin paper and the watermark is fairly easy to see in a black tray with fluid.
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Posted 01/24/2022   5:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Even PostmasterGS's excellent images of the 20 M Michel 230P and 230W appear identical to me. Or is it just me that can't see it?


It's not just you. I question the accuracy of the ID on those, but they're both certified, so at this point I'm trusting the experts' IDs. I'll likely replace them with more clearly distinguishable copies in the future.

Here's an additional visual aid for the posthorns.
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Posted 01/24/2022   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PostmasterGS, thank you. Except for the 20 M it is not too difficult to determine flat plate from rotary. The 20 M has me baffled. I have a few expertized copies; when I find them I will show them in a new thread. Thanks again.
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