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Stamp Spaces-Davo Vs Palo

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Valued Member
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Posted 01/27/2022   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Basecamp1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi, I'm a new member as of today and I would like to get some info regarding the number of spaces for stamps in Davo hingeless albums vs Palo. Obviously, I don't want you to count the pages, but rather give me your thoughts from your past experience with these albums. And, please share your thoughts on each of these album types for collecting Canada and Russia.

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647 Posts
Posted 01/27/2022   8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
IIRC, Davo uses Michel (more or less), while Palo (which are Bill Steiner's pages under license) uses Scott. Can surmise, though don't know for sure, that Davo will therefore be a bit more comprehensive.
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Posted 01/27/2022   9:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basecamp, I have two of my collections in DAVO albums and never had a regret.


Peter
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32 Posts
Posted 01/27/2022   10:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basecamp1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all for replies. I seem to have a better time with Palo because of the Scott order or maybe I just think its easier. Has anyone found that Davo is actually as easy to navigate as the Palo even though it doesn't follow Scott?
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Posted 01/27/2022   11:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Linus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basecamp1

Checkout YouTube for the "Ted Talks Stamps" channel, go to his playlist and find Ep.51 for his review of a new Davo album.

Hope this helps you,

Linus
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Posted 01/28/2022   04:45 am  Show Profile Check johnsim03's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Funny you should mention it - I watched this a couple of days ago, and I thought the review was good... John

Zh9YA-JEmC8
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Posted 01/28/2022   08:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Coastwatcher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As Ted said, the Davo albums are simplified with the stamps that they have spaces for, while the Palo albums will be be more comprehensive. So, if you have a fairly comprehensive collection, you may be left with some stamps that don't have places in the Davo album after all is said and done. The Palo albums have spaces for every major Scott number from each country.
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Edited by Coastwatcher - 01/28/2022 08:28 am
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Posted 01/28/2022   09:11 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you want "easier", perhaps look at Schaubek and Lighthouse, which don't relegate large numbers of stamps - air-mail, charity - to "back of book". You're paying an awful lot for mediocre Steiner design when you buy Palo.
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Posted 01/28/2022   10:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Huh, I have never noticed the "simplified" language for DAVO, so much for being perhaps more comprehensive.

I'm a big fan of Lighthouse's choices, though not always their organization, to the point that 3/4 of my collection is housed in Lighthouse one way or another (USA is Schaubek, and Commonwealth will eventually be moved from stockbooks to SG Monarch). If I decide to dive in to Spanish or French colonies, I'll probably go Edifil and MOC, respectively.

I give Palo a lot of credit for covering pretty much everything the world over and not being Euro/North Atlantic -centric.
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Posted 02/07/2022   02:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basecamp1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm too new to send email so I will reply here to GeoffHa. Not meaning to be argumentative-just not knowledgeable RE Steiner design. What is Steiner design and why is it "mediocre" such as in Palo albums. Palo design looks good to me-black and white looks better than their color illustrations. Davo is good too, but not enough spaces if I am correct,
and no Scott order. I have always thought that White Ace has the best illustrations and historical explanations on their pages, and great binders and heavy stock paper, but I'm too lazy to mount stamps so that's why I am looking at (and buying) hingeless albums. Any input from anyone, and everyone would be appreciated. Thanks from Colorado.
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Posted 02/07/2022   03:03 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Steiner produces a huge quantity of pages. Inevitably, his efforts at page design are going to be functional, rather than highly considered. That can mean stamps at the top of a page with masses of empty space beneath, too many stamps on a page, too little thought given to positioning horizontal and vertical stamps etc. This obviously doesn't deter lots of people, but it does me. The design should do justice to the stamps, especially those that aren't the wallpaper of recent decades. However, even if he laid out his pages with more flair, I shouldn't use them because of the Scott ordering. I don't want stamps from the same set or year tens or hundreds of pages away from their fellows.
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Posted 02/07/2022   03:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Basecamp1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GeoffHa- OK, I'm gaining knowledge here and I appreciate it, but still need some clarification: You prefer the order to be annual with all issues in order by page, right? Rather than commemoratives, etc annually then BOB at the end of the album? I would too, but what album pages have that order, enough spaces and good positioning of stamps on pages? And, I agree that Palo pages are a bit crowded and that Davo are not, but the spaces you lose using Davo are a bit of a hassle to me. Lastly, I am, obviously not in tune with Lindner, Schaubeck, Safe, etc. Please, anyone chime in and advise regarding differences-pros and cons of each of these album choices.
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Posted 02/07/2022   03:38 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Each catalogue orders stamps differently, so each album that follows that catalogue tends to use the same order. What Scott considers "back of book" would not be considered as such in, say, the UK or Germany, i.e. by Gibbons and Michel. So air-mail and charity stamps will be integrated with other issues in an album that follows those catalogues. For their part, Yvert and Davo separate air-mail, but not charity stamps. I don't want issue religiously to follow issue if it leads to messy page lay-out.

If you're solely looking at US, you may find that some manufacturers have changed their normal practice to accord with US practice in terms of ordering. The problem of separation of issues is also reducedin the case of the US because there are few, if any, charity stamps, amd air-mail stamps aren't necessarily part of larger sets.
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Edited by GeoffHa - 02/07/2022 04:01 am
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Posted 02/07/2022   05:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Being Dutch and focussing on British (at a specialised level) and Irish stamps, I started out with DAVO's Great Britain hingeless albums. The DAVO album was quite basic. It is more akin to the 'SG Collect British Stamps' than 'SG Concise' catalogue. Notwithstanding that, Stanley Gibbons sells it as SG One-country Album.

My first collecting interest was my own country's issues. The DAVO luxury hingeless albums struggle to include perforation varieties. Usually, it includes watermark varieties. From about 1990, it started to include coil and booklet stamps with imperforate sides. This is an issue with most album publishers.

For European brands, those from German-orientated countries tend towards a simplified Michel listing. Those that are more French-oriented tend towards Yvert & Tellier. British brands will prefer Stanley Gibbons catalogues. Often, they may also have more specialised pages for their home territory.

As GeoffHA wrote, in Europe, what American collectors call 'semi-postals' are seen as ordinary stamps. Continental European countries issue them quite frequently. The rule is that they were valid for ordinary postal use. Airmail, official, and postage due stamps, normally, are at the back of the album as they did not serve (were not valid) for general postal use.

Like GeoffHA, I am not too impressed by the Steiner pages many members use. I make my own pages and very much dislike the very crowded layout of Steiner. I like to keep my definitive sets together and not spread out over years. You, rarely, will find that. The reason is that most publishers publish annual supplements, and they just cannot wait for a sovereign to die or abdicate before adding his or her definitives. A drawback of DAVO is that it adds very little information. But, in part, that is a consequence of collecting at a specialised level.

As for pre-printed pages, I would go along and say my preference would be for the German brands (Lindner, Leuchtturm/Lighthouse, SAFE).
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Posted 02/17/2022   9:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For what it's worth, the now-defunct Minkus brand of albums was tied to the Minkus catalogues which did not follow Scott catalogue order. I didn't use Minkus albums, preferring the aesthetics of Scott albums, but I did prefer Minkus order which did not relegate semi-postal or airmail stamps to a ghetto in the back of the album, something that always seemed very strange to me. If you're going to do that, you might as well have separate sections in your album for "regular" and "commemorative" stamps. I don't object to putting Official or Postage Due, etc. stamps in the "back of the book" since they are not normally used as postage stamps, but all these others are actual postage stamps. I want to collect historically and chronologically, so I want all stamps from an era to be together and continuous. Putting air mails in one section, semis in another, and all the other stamps in a third section seems bizarre, especially when those stamps are part of the same set of stamps -- which is often the case -- or they share the same design elements and historical references of other stamps in that era. In that regard, I think Scott is wrong and Minkus was correct. To that end, whenever it's possible with my Scott album pages, and you can't always do this precisely, I move my Scott air mail and semi-postal pages to the era the other stamps are in. It just makes much better sense to me because 1920s air mails and 1920s semis belong with the other 1920s stamps.

As for Steiner's pages, I agree with previous comments that his pages are not very elegant. And of course, he also follows Scott's practice of putting air mails and semis into separate sections. His goal is clearly to provide pages quickly and cheaply in the most straightforward manner for collectors, not to lay out his pages with any particular style or aesthetic sense. Sometimes his pages are perfectly fine, but many are clunky, crowded, awkward, and not very satisfying. I think this is partly due to the small page size his stamp layouts are designed for without sufficient room to spread things out. He does, at times, replace pages with a newer page that adds stamps or rearranges them, but I'm not sure he does that often enough.

That Palo has adopted his page layouts makes me wonder if they gave this much (or any?) thought.

But my real pet peeve about album page layouts is having too many stamps on a page, and that is done by many album makers. When the number gets into the dozens on a single page, my brain starts to short circuit. It's like those old 19th century art museums where they'd hang paintings in rows above and below each other. A bit overwhelming. I say spread 'em out so I can look at them better.
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Edited by DrewM - 02/17/2022 9:20 pm
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Posted 02/17/2022   9:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "crowding" issue is tied to cost since if you halved the number of stamps on a page you double the number of pages and in turn require more binders. At some point you price yourself out of the market for most collectors or they turn to printing their own pages which is a relatively modern alternative to off the shelf products.

I think that up until the Forties the quantities of stamps issued with spaces needed in albums was manageable. Then the deluge of issues started to bring in cash from a large number of collectors in a growing and healthy hobby and you saw the explosion in size of album volumes.
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