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W-F Coil - Is This Line Pair Genuine?

 
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2015 Posts
Posted 01/28/2022   4:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This appears to be a never hinged 496 line pair, perf 10, unwatermarked. I know very little about W-F coils, but I know this isn't typically a "problem" coil as with the earlier, super-expensive ones. If it were a single stamp, I wouldn't really think twice about it. My main concern is whether it's a legit line pair. It's kind of hard to tell from the crappy color of the scans, but it almost looks to me that the color of the line is slightly different than the color of the stamps, as if someone added it later. Not sure if that's typical or if it's indicative of something else. The line also appears ever-so-slightly slanted in relation to the stamp design and the perfs. Again, not sure if this is normal.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.





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Posted 01/28/2022   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The line should be identical ink, spaced equally between the stamps, and square with the stamps. Looks like a poor ball point pen from here.
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Edited by John Becker - 01/28/2022 4:37 pm
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Posted 01/28/2022   4:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Artful - I believe that your suspicion is correct in regard to the line being drawn in. Likely drawn to the side of the perfs because if the perpetrator tried to draw the line through the perfs it would damage them.
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Posted 01/28/2022   4:37 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely fake. You can see remnants of perforations on the top edge and the line doesn't look like the right color ink
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United States
356 Posts
Posted 01/28/2022   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GMC89 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I understand ,the pair should be genuine if they are rotary press's printed as there are no rotary sheet stamps in this series. If there is no watermark and they are rotary printed they are genuine.Scott 496.The line might be fraudulently applied, that I don't know although I suspect it is drawn in. If a watermark exists they would be Scott 458.
Regards mark
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Posted 01/28/2022   4:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny,
You state

Quote:
You can see remnants of perforations on the top edge

I don't think the small irregularities are residual perf holes. I have no problems with this starting out as a normal pair of 496.

But if you think it is trimmed, then what is the starting stamp?
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Posted 01/28/2022   5:03 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
nevermind - I bow to your superior knowledge on this one. I just see a number of bumps on the top that looked suspicious. The line looks so wrong so I jumped to a conclusion.
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Posted 01/28/2022   5:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, all. Originally had an eye towards selling this on eBay before I got to looking at it closer. Too bad about the line, it would have been a decent NH coil pair on it's own without that little addition. I think I'll probably separate them - the line appears to be pretty much completely confined to the left stamp - keeping the one on the right and throwing away the one on the left.
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Posted 01/28/2022   5:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think, if a true line pair, the line would be exactly parallel to the edge of the design. The line is where the 2 plates meet on the rotary drum and I can't imagine this connection point being "askew" to the design image.
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Posted 01/28/2022   6:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another facet of rotary line pairs of this era: The line is indeed the joint between two plates. They abut and the slight gap accumulates ink which prints. However in mounting the plates on the press, the images of the two stamps across the line from each other are seldom aligned exactly. One stamp a bit higher or lower than the other. Take a look at the 496 line pairs on eBay and try to find with an exact alignment!
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Posted 01/28/2022   6:46 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

496/496a This attached link made me buy many 496 pairs or line pairs hoping they were 496a's. It was one statement that essayk, a well known expert on SCF made that made me interested in the small hole variety. I would enlarge the images of offered stamps and measure the wholes and purchase accordingly. I did received the first several PF certificates issued for any 496a's. I have a group that I have been wanting to get to the PF for certificates for a while.

This SCF link tells that story! http://goscf.com/t/41100&whichpage=1
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Posted 01/28/2022   9:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
TheArtfulHinger, in the view of the back, it looks like there is an adherence in the lower right corner, so perhaps not NH. Or is this just something in or on the stock card?
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2015 Posts
Posted 01/29/2022   01:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
it looks like there is an adherence in the lower right corner, so perhaps not NH.


It's a small gum disturbance. Doesn't look like a hinge mark to me, plus it would be in a really odd spot for that, since it's along a bottom corner. In any case, that's located on the same stamp defaced with the fake line, so it's destined for the trash bin, anyway.

BTW, I don't really collect US stamps and, for all intents and purposes, didn't spend anything on this stamp. It was just among the remaining parts of a lot I bought a few years ago which was a dealer's "red box" full of 102 cards of various countries. Most of the cards are labeled with a catalog number and a price, but this one was in a blank card, so probably the original dealer recognized it as fake as well, otherwise he'd have had it labeled for sale like the others. Anyway, I just happened to look through the box again today hunting for stamps I might be able to sell for a couple bucks here or there. Most of the stamps in that box - those that I didn't use or need for my own collection - are low to no value, so I was a bit surprised (and hopeful) at finding an item that might be worth more than a dollar or two. Alas....
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Posted 01/30/2022   3:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the others - fake line pair. The gum distribution indicates that it is a rotary press, so I would guess that it is a 496 pair that saw some shenanigans. The line color appears slightly different from the stamp ink, too, plus the line should be better centered and 'angled' relative to the two stamps. Lastly, there appears to be 'disturbance' of the line around the perf holes, especially near the top where the line 'intersects' the holes a bit more. To me, that alone says the line was added after the perf holes - faked. I would be willing to bet that if you looked REALLY closely, you would find ink on the INSIDE of the perf holes at top where the line intersects the holes slightly. My bet is that the line was put where it was (ie: NOT centered) in order to AVOID the perf holes, and the stamp doctor even screwed that up near the top.

If it were me (in case you care), I would mark it on the back as 'FAKE' and try to sell it on eBay for giggles, describing it as brutally honest as you can. I am always amazed at what people buy on eBay.
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Posted 01/30/2022   3:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have to agree with most everyone else. This appears to be an original line pair, with a line drawn in. By looking at the top, you can almost see where the ball point pen "caught" slightly, causing an indentation, before pulling down through the stamp to the bottom edge. It also "jumped" at the top, causing a very light impression at the very top, which then darkened to uniformity to the bottom. Also, not even close to the same color ink as the rest of the stamp. An interesting item, but fake.
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United States
1 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   9:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have always come across line pairs that seem to be genuine .I own many line pairs ,some with higher values that I have purchased from reputable dealers yet never had validated .Now,I shy away from them all. Arrow blocks ,line pairs ,center line blocks etc. because there is always some suspicion ,that for me anyways,I have not enough knowledge or resources to be able to know it is genuine. The price difference justifies forgeries and fakes . So this is an area I avoid. I guess if you have the time knowledge and resources to verify them ahead of purchase, it is fine.
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