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Stamp Auction Network Will No Longer Be Free For Bidding- Subscription Based Only

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Posted 02/03/2022   4:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It still amazes me how the simplest of things can become incredibly complex.

How about "SAN still free including bidding at over 200 auction firms but now offering subscriptions with different levels of benefits" or something to that effect.

I reread the email from Tom that started me on this, and it is ambiguous at best. The initial membership matrix did nothing to clear things up. The "new" matrix is still unclear, at least to me.

Obviously "free" is not intended to stand out and from a business perspective I understand this.

I am a SAN fan and will continue to be. I do believe that it has a value that can be worth paying for to the right person. I signed up for a free membership.

The conclusion for me is that the entities that benefit most from SAN are the auction houses. Most of them are reaching a large audience through SAN that they would not otherwise have access to without spending a lot of marketing dollars. It seems a bit unfair to impose cost upon buyers for the service of spending money with these firms.

The data SAN has for research is another matter entirely and I believe that it is fair to charge a fee to access that data. I will leave the topic of who owns the data for another topic or time.



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Posted 02/03/2022   5:18 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...I will leave the topic of who owns the data for another topic or time...


I think this is a pretty big part of this conversation. Many online companies promoted their website as 'free' when in reality they monetized user data and traffic. Older folks, including a LOT of stamp collectors, never understood (or perhaps never cared?) that THEY were the product.

But this can often be a hard row to hoe for companies, some have required many years to finally turn a profit. Others, and we have all seen companies like Photobucket, found they could not reach the levels they wanted strictly on monetized user data and traffic. So like PhotoBucket, transitioning to new ways to generate income after users were started with 'free' services can be a rocky road.
Don
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Posted 02/03/2022   5:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bankruptcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The data SAN has for research is another matter entirely and I believe that it is fair to charge a fee to access that data. I will leave the topic of who owns the data for another topic or time.


The potential of this data is extraordinary. SAN has started to exploit this with the provenance feature, though there are other avenues as well. One simple idea (simple to envision, maybe not so simple to implement) is a way to show price trends for individual stamps. The trends can be separated by quality.

For example, graph F/VF US Scott 245 sold prices during the last 5 years; separate lines for new, used, and on cover. Time series data like this can be quite useful to a collector.

The other issue with this maybe licensing of the Scott, Stanley Gibbons, and other numbering systems.

Access to data like this would be enough for me to pay a fee. The search feature is OK, but it's not as flexible as I would like, and some searches don't return the results I'm looking for (e.g., imperf AND between, return ALL imperf stamps, not just the imperf betweens).

Sadly, my purchases during the last year dropped off a cliff and won't likely return to previous levels for awhile. So, a priced membership to enable bidding (even with the free membership for one year) is not in the cards for me currently. I do wish Tom and SAN continued and improved success.
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Posted 02/03/2022   6:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Signed up for the free membership. My main interest is the unattended live bidding. A mind boggling path to status quo.
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Posted 02/03/2022   6:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BankruptController - Siegel offers pricing charts for specific stamp issues by grade. Limited to what they've sold, but also includes PSE data over time
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Posted 02/03/2022   6:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bankruptcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BobinRye - Yes, I've used Siegel's pricing charts and they are very nice. As you say, though, they are limited to their own sales. Siegel is an exceptional auction house. I've bought many items from them. They specialize in exceptional material as well.

SAN could provide aggregate pricing charts from dozens of auction houses for most levels of material for decades worth of sales. The volume and quality of data is significant.
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Posted 02/03/2022   6:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Returning to this thread after a day, I see my earlier comment about it being "confusingly presented" wasn't just me! Glad that it has been clarified due to efforts of those in this thread.
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Posted 02/03/2022   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We had a physicist who could barely hold a casual conservation but was exponentially smarter than anyone in the building.


Don, I know exactly what you are talking about.

When I first started our equipment lead was a crotchety old Navy guy who told me the one thing I always had to keep in mind when dealing with them was PhD stood for "Post Hole Digger". He would mutter and walk off shaking his head.

Makes me laugh to this day when I see the first slide of any presentation with "Joe. Q. Baggadonuts, PhD"
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Posted 02/03/2022   8:26 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"My engineers were kept in the basement and not allowed to talk to anyone. I swear the higher the engineering intelligence the more socially impaired they were. We had a physicist who could barely hold a casual conservation but was exponentially smarter than anyone in the building."

I have a physics background and am book smart people/real world stupid. But difficulty communicating with people outside your field is not limited to techies. Anyone who is immersed in something and who normally only talks about this endeavor to others in the field tend to talk like they think everyone has some basic level of understanding of their field and the lingo they use.
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Posted 02/03/2022   11:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall, I agree. We, it appears, have similar backgrounds. I know I can get stuck in a paradigm that the people around me cannot 'get into', and it bothers me sometimes that I think I have something of value, but cannot get them to see it due to my communication. On the flip side, I cannot tell you how many people I have spoken to who insist on sprinkling their conversation with their 'jargon' (from work, I suppose) and make no effort to bring it back to real world language. Most people attempt (I say 'attempt'. I don't say 'do' or whatever word that fits there.) to clarify for the sake of moving the conversation along, or getting their point across. Others don't, and for no other reason than as some kind of superiority trip. My take on that is: the conversation should be over - everybody's time is now being wasted. That was completely off-topic - I apologize - and am not implying this about anyone here.

Having taken a few deep breaths since my rant a few pages ago (my first post here), I believe I will sign up for the free 1 year subscription and see how it works out. I MAY pop it up a level and see if that meets my needs more, if the first level isn't to my satisfaction. Much beyond that. I am probably out. I suspect (expect?) over time, the free subscription will go away. I will have to re-evaluate my options then - maybe then I will "pop it up a level" to maintain the service.
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Posted 02/04/2022   01:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SAN has a lot of so called deadbeats who use their system to watch auctions and other who do their viewing on SAN but bid on the house system . How about SAN use a system of $1,000 spend thru SAN or 5 lots purchased to get the SAN basic system for free .Charge a fee for those who are lookers .
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Posted 02/04/2022   07:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
" I know I can get stuck in a paradigm that the people around me cannot 'get into', and it bothers me sometimes that I think I have something of value, but cannot get them to see it due to my communication."

Must be very frustrating.
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Posted 02/04/2022   08:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tldroege to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We are the company that in the 90's developed an auction management system that in the Americas' and for some firms in Europe (Harmers of London and SA) brought the entire stamp auction world into the digital age. There was no system before we came on the scene. We showed the American firms (including Siegel) how to build auctions using database publishing methods to create all those amazing catalogs that appeared at that time. We are the firm behind the Zoellner sale, all the Gross sales, the Honolulu Advertising sale etc... We also wrote the PF System, Siegels Power Search and created StampAuctionNetwork in 1994. We are the company behind nearly all the technology that came out of the US.

We are going to continue to lead the digital transformation into Philately and that is why we ask for participation from the community for many of our new features are not going to be paid for by the auction companies.

We have "Market Data" where for any stamp or cover on a catalog, you can, at a click of a link, get 30 years of data on that stamp. We have image technology working to match up the same stamp or cover with the exact same stamp or cover offered back to the 90's so that we can give you the price history for that exact stamp. We call that provenance. We can do that for 10's of thousands of stamps. There is immense power there. You can see when a stamp was altered over a period of time, perfs changes, guide lines removed, reperfing etc. You can see how many times a stamp was offered by the stamp auction company and unsold, even if the auction company claims it was. We have post your own prices realized (kind of a crowd sourced approach) so that as a group we can collect prices realized for those companies that don't post price realized. Unattended Live bidding save the savvy bidders a bucket of money. I can think you can see why auction companies do not want to pay for this. We have censuses for every stamp, online and in PDF form. If I can I will post one here, but I may not be able to do that.

You really do not want to stop keeping abreast of what we are doing, because we will continue to be the major technology player in this space.
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Posted 02/04/2022   08:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
SAN has a lot of so called deadbeats who use their system to watch auctions and other who do their viewing on SAN but bid on the house system . How about SAN use a system of $1,000 spend thru SAN or 5 lots purchased to get the SAN basic system for free .Charge a fee for those who are lookers .


How is somebody a deadbeat for using something that there is no charge to use. A deadbeat does not pay money due.

If you watch an NFL game at a neighbors house are you a deadbeat? How about if you use "free" air to fill the tires on your golf cart?

There are good reasons to bid through the House sometimes. One downfall of SAN is that if you enter an absentee bid the current opening changes for all to see immediately. I constantly see people engage in bidding wars prior to a live auction opening as if they are on eBay. It is the height of stupidity. It just happened to me with Cherrystone. Two or more mental midgets bid up lots I was watching to silly levels on SAN.

I just bid directly at an overseas firm whose lots I saw on SAN because that House does not change the published openings as you enter bids. I won and at a great price.
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Posted 02/04/2022   08:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tldroege to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a way for you to see what we are doing with our census project. We have extensive censuses for every stamp selling for over $100 for the US, Canada and a good representation of the world.

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/cen...0cCensus.pdf
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