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Stamp Auction Network Will No Longer Be Free For Bidding- Subscription Based Only

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Posted 02/04/2022   08:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tom - I think you are preaching to the choir in many respects. I am a firm believer in "knowledge is power" and SAN has the data to empower collectors to make smart decisions.

The rollout of the new program was just not communicated well IMHO. I am not Einstein but neither am I a dunce and I could not figure out what was going on for the life of me.

Time to move on and take advantage of what the future holds while still vertical every day.
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Posted 02/04/2022   08:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tldroege to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For Still confused.

Can I bid in auctions with the free version? YES

Am I able to bid ahead of time with a max bid only? YES

Or can I watch real time and bid lot by lot? YES

This was also at the site all the time.




Also to the recent comment about entering bids before the sale and the opening moving up. That is why we developed Unattended Live Bidding. It lets you enter bids ahead of time, that get executed for you on the floor without revealing your top bid. Lots of savvy bidders use this and save buckets of money. The sale has to be live at SAN, but most of the major ones are.
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Posted 02/04/2022   08:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also to the recent comment about entering bids before the sale and the opening moving up. That is why we developed Unattended Live Bidding. It lets you enter bids ahead of time, that get executed for you on the floor without revealing your top bid. Lots of savvy bidders use this and save buckets of money. The sale has to be live at SAN, but most of the major ones are.


I utilize ULB with success but the problem remains that my ULB bids mean nothing when other bidders simply enter absentee bids on SAN and run up the opening for all to see. In recent instances I refrained from bidding because of this. It benefits the House to have this type of behavior but not SAN members.
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Posted 02/04/2022   10:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For Still confused.

Can I bid in auctions with the free version? YES

Am I able to bid ahead of time with a max bid only? YES

Or can I watch real time and bid lot by lot? YES


Tom, what am I missing?

Your graphic shows a red "X"?

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Posted 02/04/2022   11:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tldroege to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is not the membership column.
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Posted 02/04/2022   11:31 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Huh? Then what is that graphic supposed to mean?
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Posted 02/04/2022   11:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like SAN and have used it since 2003 , I won over $60,000 in purchases and bid about $200,000 worth thru various auction firms and these firms have it on record that me and many like me,these firms know they would not of gotten those bids ......they ,the auction firms have to understand it is a huge effect on prices realized .

I talk to Tom twice when I screw up my computer and he was helpful ,so even if there is a fee to use I will support SAN.
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Posted 02/04/2022   6:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
tldroege - perhaps people don't understand the difference between free and no charge. I am lost with StateRevs and revenuecollector on the graphic.
Why distinguish between membership and non membership if both are free? Membership is free, and renewable as free each year. What am I not understanding? Why a no charge column?

I think you should use more common language terms around web site logons.

If you just want people to sign in (membership?), reorient the web site to just require registration to do anything beyond basic browsing of stamp "news" or the auction list. Non registered user - This is just guest access. Explain the site, what it can do, and what you get for registering.

Once you have a logon (member), and it is still free (which apparently includes all bidding options), clear up the language of everything else around upgrade options.
For instance remove the word "extended" from any features. It's either basic features, premium features, or some level of gold,silver,bronze. The less words the better.
So it should read as, Basic includes all Guest Features, and
Premium includes all Guest and Basic features.

Also do not put warnings up for users to not sign up for a free membership if you are already a paid member as it will cancel them. How about putting logic in the page that hides that option if they are a paid member. Protect users from themselves is better design.





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Posted 02/04/2022   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think this is a pretty big part of this conversation. Many online companies promoted their website as 'free' when in reality they monetized user data and traffic. Older folks, including a LOT of stamp collectors, never understood (or perhaps never cared?) that THEY were the product.

But this can often be a hard row to hoe for companies, some have required many years to finally turn a profit. Others, and we have all seen companies like Photobucket, found they could not reach the levels they wanted strictly on monetized user data and traffic. So like PhotoBucket, transitioning to new ways to generate income after users were started with 'free' services can be a rocky road.
Don



Yet you tell only the recent part of the Photobucket story. It arose "for free" on MySpace by users of the "free" MySpace site, once the world's largest social networking company. Photobucket was only one of a number of such successful creations made by the users of the platform. Since that top of the mountain time it has been passed around like a re-gifted Christmas fruitcake, even a former boy band singer owned for a time.

As time marches on, new and often better ideas arise and replace that which went before (yes Beta was better than VHS but VHS won). In electronics (hardware) and software, the life cycle is very short; often by design usually as an untended consequence of forward looking without consideration to prior work. Plus without constantly updating how information is stored, that information will be lost eventually, or if not lost, no longer accessible with current technology--effectively lost even if you can hold it in your hand.

Here the issue is SAN does not have the resources to keep up with what is current. Auction firms worked well before SAN and bidders placed bids before SAN. Is SAN convenient? I will say "generally yes" but the real question is how much would someone or some firm value that convenience. Then the only question that matter is what would they be willing to pay for that increase in convenience? Sadly here, not enough to support SAN's growth in my opinion which I trust will eventually be shown as correct.

Websites live once created. They only stay alive while there is money to burn to fuel them. Thus without monetization, they will starve, even if the original monetization was done by the site builder's own money, either as a bet for return (with later assistance from venture capitol) or pure altruistic reasons. As money is found to fuel the website, it must stay current, stay relevant, and in aggregate, keeps its users or grow users. Then begins the death, it is killed via legal action, it is purchased and killed, purchased and grown (this only prolongs the date of death), purchased and digested, fades away as it is superseded by a better product or unable to continue to stay relevant and fade slowly to termination. Of course you want your website purchased; if it was set up for altruist reasons, it allows your work to carry on. Otherwise, the purchase provides money, in an amount ranging from useful, to freedom, to life changing to I can't possible spent it all. However, in every case, the vision of the creator is no longer present.

SAN is at a crossroads, trying to bill for a service from many who have no real need for the service. The large firms as will many bidders have no need for the service. What is the "added value" provided by SAN? The real beneficiaries of SAN are the small, medium and unknown or very narrow material specific auction firms and those bidders who want such offered material and did not know of the firms. Sadly for SAN, that is a pool that can NOT be drained for much monetization. Thanks to SAN, such bidders are now aware of those small, medium and unknown (previously) or very narrow material specific auction firm. Loose SAN tomorrow, and the bidders know how to contact those firms. That informational horse has left the barn. What is left to monetize?

Me, I look at SAN but never bid with it. I bid in person or via an agent and regularly spend money, month in and month out. I will continue doing so without SAN for now.

In closing, I hope SAN can get the monetizing it needs, if not wants, and continues to host a service some find useful.
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Posted 02/04/2022   7:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I like SAN and have used it since 2003...and [under]bid about $200,000 worth thru various auction firms...and these firms have it on record that...they would not of gotten those bids [from me].


Can you, floortrader, help me understand why you would not have placed your underbids without SAN? I trust you are also saying your winning bids would not have been placed without SAN either. Is SAN now and since 2003 the only way you will place bids?

I ask this since, as I mentioned above, my activity has all been done without SAN but we likely are customers of the same auction firms. What am I missing that you see?
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Posted 02/04/2022   8:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Parcel ----I only bid live thru SANS and only bid after watch how the bidding is going ,I never leave a bid before the auction starts . I bid for two people now for me and a eBay seller who is growing into a nice business so he can help supplement his income . I been with Rasdale Stamp Co. for 50 years and Kelleher for 40 years ,Cherrystone for 20 years and Dutch Country for 5 years . Then there are others were I have to pay before shipment . I make it a point to know their staff and visit once in a while .
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Posted 02/04/2022   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcomed reply. So we both avoid giving bids before the auction starts.

As to auctions, I only started using them in the late '70's. If I had to guess, the first bid was with Jacques Schiff of New York for EFOs or Henry M. Spellman III of San Anselmo, CA for western postal history. [Edit; I am assuming stamp shop bid boards did not count here.]
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 02/04/2022 9:18 pm
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Posted 02/05/2022   02:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tldroege to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rismoney,

I was struggling to find the term for "no charge", "Guest" is the term I was looking for. Also good tip on the "Free Membership" to not be available if the person is already subscribed.

- Thanks
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Edited by tldroege - 02/05/2022 02:32 am
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Posted 02/05/2022   11:10 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"I utilize ULB with success but the problem remains that my ULB bids mean nothing when other bidders simply enter absentee bids on SAN and run up the opening for all to see. In recent instances I refrained from bidding because of this. It benefits the House to have this type of behavior but not SAN members."

Rog - do you seriously think those same bidders would not bid those same lots up live if presale absentee bidding were banned?
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Posted 02/05/2022   11:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rog - do you seriously think those same bidders would not bid those same lots up live if presale absentee bidding were banned?


I do believe that and here is why. A lot of this type of bidding is emotional. It is eBay bidding. Why do I say that it is emotional? Because it is irrational behavior. If you really, really want something why keep tipping your hand and responding in public in a knee-jerk fashion. If you intend to bid live what is the point of essentially bidding yourself up beforehand? Why not use absentee live bidding? Why not submit a book bid that does not increase the bid amount viewable by other bidders? SAN even publishes a tutorial that advises against such behavior. Engaging in a pre-auction public bidding war benefits only the house. Such behavior is the same as eBay shill bidding where a seller uses an ID to coax other people into increasing their bids and it works. (not saying it is shill bidding on SAN, just the same effect)

The premise of making these bids public is to show others that they need to bid more to win. Who really wins? The House does.

PS: The lots that I refrained from bidding on sold at the public bid amount and received no live bids because the amount was already in silly territory.

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