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How Did I End Up Paying Max Bid In Kelleher Weekly Online Sale?

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Posted 02/25/2022   10:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I won 4 lots in the same Kelleher sale but nothing got pushed to max bid.
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Posted 02/25/2022   11:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stallzer - Were your winning bids greater than or equal to the suggested bid amount?
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Posted 02/25/2022   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
3 of the 4 lots were and 1 I had to bid against someone to win it.

*Edit*

First lot suggested bid was $150 and I won it for under $100
2nd was suggested bid $80, won it for $70
3rd was suggested bid $40 and I won it for $27
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Edited by stallzer - 02/25/2022 5:46 pm
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Posted 02/25/2022   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Color me confused.
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Posted 02/25/2022   9:40 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After having had similar issues with another auction house, I will not ever bid in non-live auctions on SAN or any other platform. Admittedly, even with "live" online auctions you never truly know if you are bidding against real bidders, bots, or the house... however at least with live bidding you know the results of your bid right then and there when the lot "hammers". You're not leaving it open to nefarious manipulation after the fact.

Given the complete lack of transparency, there's too high of a possibility of fraud. One auction house I absolutely know for certain artifically pumps incoming bids to their max or close to it... and if one auction house does, others can too.
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Posted 02/27/2022   11:10 pm  Show Profile Check jamesg's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It appears this happened to me today on 4 lots at their weekly sale. After things closed it look like I'd won at my low bid and a few near the middle between my low and high bid, then 15 minutes later they all appear to show won at my high bid. None went to the suggested bid. Terms or not, this seems like cheating the customer to me. If this turns out to be so when I get their bill/lots won notice, I won't bid with them again!
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Posted 02/27/2022   11:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I keep a screen grab of the message history right off the auction page at SAN moments after I purchase a lot. There is no wiggle room for anything to happen after that point, I have won several items for several increments less than my very reasonable bids submitted before the opening, but watched it live too to see if there was anything off. Never encountered anything odd yet. Never had any upped after an auction. The one thing I do not like is when the auctioneer is encourging other bidders that it will take one more increment to purchase an item. To me that is disclosing that the high bidder is at his maximum bid, and that should not be done.

Edit: For clarification- Two last sentances were about Canadian dealer
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Edited by No1philatelist - 02/28/2022 12:14 am
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Posted 02/28/2022   08:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The one thing I do not like is when the auctioneer is encourging other bidders that it will take one more increment to purchase an item.


That happened repeatedly in the Modern Stamps live auction on SAN. The auctioneer kept announcing that it would take one more bid to clear the book.
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Posted 02/28/2022   3:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If there is no live bidding, and the hammer SMACK to close bidding on a lot, then you have no idea what is happening after the 'close' of a mail bid sale. The auction house can claim that bids into the SAN system are delayed because they are receiving bids via other sources (phone, e-mail, FAX, etc). Also, since there is no live bidding (where you can hear the action) you have no idea where the underbidder is, or even if there is one. Bid with those two facts of life in mind. I know of what I say - I have worked for a number of auction houses over the years. Simply bid what you are willing to pay - you may very well be paying exactly that.
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Posted 02/28/2022   4:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also should have added that all 4 lots I bid on I also placed a "Max bid total" and none of the lots reached that total. Two of the 3 lots I mentioned must not have had any bidders,both were my opening bids.
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Posted 02/28/2022   7:13 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"The one thing I do not like is when the auctioneer is encourging other bidders that it will take one more increment to purchase an item. To me that is disclosing that the high bidder is at his maximum bid, and that should not be done.
Edit: For clarification- Two last sentances were about Canadian dealer"

I have witnessed 2 US auctioneers doing the same thing, and I agree with you.
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Posted 02/28/2022   7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Trepel does it.
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Posted 02/28/2022   11:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mootermutt987 yes your correct, and I understand that the bid can be much different after closing, and what shows before closing in mail sales, and because of the different bid systems used. Because of sales conditions stated for every different auctionhouse one should not bid more than they are willing to pay for the item described. I did make referance to "live auctions", which is a different ballgame where I have at least some limited control. Interesting to note that others have experienced the same thing I had mentioned with some US firms.
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Posted 03/01/2022   06:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The one thing I do not like is when the auctioneer is encourging other bidders that it will take one more increment to purchase an item. To me that is disclosing that the high bidder is at his maximum bid, and that should not be done.


The auctioneer is an agent of the seller and has a fiduciary duty to the seller, not the buyer. The auctioneer's job is to get the highest bid on behalf of the seller. Just remember, one day you, or your heirs, will be selling your collection
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Posted 03/01/2022   08:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The auctioneer also has rules to go by especially if licensed and confidentiality of bids is one of them. Announcing that another bid will break a tie with the book is the same as revealing a book bid.

I sell through auction frequently and still find the practice of coaxing bids like what is discussed here to be at the very least uncomfortable and at most unethical. IMHO
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