How Did I End Up Paying Max Bid In Kelleher Weekly Online Sale?

It also explains why my high bid was always losing by 1 increment when I submitted bids beforehand. " come on guys 1 more bid and I won't have to ship it" is what I'd hear at DCA if I attended the auction. This was before they started to use SAN live bidding.

Going to play devil's advocate here. In my opinion, that isn't breaking confidentiality unless the auctioneer announces WHOSE bid will be broken. I'm not saying that "the next bid clears the book" might not be perceived as unethical, but I don't believe it is breaking confidentiality.

I agree with you Dan. They know where the line is and walk it.

I disagree. If not revealing who has the high bid were the only consideration, then they could just as easily justify listing the max bid online before the sale.
Example, 2nd high bid $100, high bid $150, they could list current level $110 and max $150 to encourage a $160.
It is absolutely a violation of what they claim they won't do.

I think we are all speaking to the same thing here but in different ways. Dan, I believe was referring to the confidentiality of a specific bidder's identity, at least that is the way I read it, rather than the number of dollars.

At the risk of flip flopping like a Congressperson campaigning I side with Eyeonwall. The number is what matters and if you let people know that "X" dollars clears the book you have in fact disclosed the high book bid.

I decided to try my luck again last Sunday with the weekly Kelleher sale. There were 2 U.S. Revenue items I wanted so I placed bids on both and included a "Max bid" price. My bids were both $70 under the suggested bid. I won both lots but interestingly both ended up on the "max bid" amount, weird.

The auctioneers duty is to the seller to get the best price!

However, they should play fair with bidders as well, which is why bidding in person is always the best way. However in this day and age its almost impossible to be in the room.
Automated computer bidding if it works correctly should only increase a bid by 1 step above the lowest bid, so if you put a very high bid you should still only win at 1 step above the lowest bidder. Some lots will have reserves which can also make a difference if the auction starts below reserve or at a ridiculous low price which is designed to attract bidders who think this is cheap and bid then get carried away until the price is too high!

Stallzer - From my experience a Max bid becomes THE bid in most cases. Most firms cannot resist the temptation of money left on the table and clean that table of every penny. A couple of firms continue to do the right thing, Modern Stamps and Filatelia Fischer come to mind.

I have done some pre-bidding on SAN and won - always on my max bid. When I have bid live, I seem to do better, cheaper.... No more pre - bids for me. I prefer live only now. Kelleher or Dutch County , cant remember

Also, have called or emailed and scooped unsold lots much less than what they had listed - twice. Just made an offer and they said ok

Short term greed so often results in long term loss. Especially when the source of your income has lost trust.

Do any of these auction houses show the bidding war results and increments at the end of the auction with bidder card numbers or any similar means of ensuring your bids (money) were handled as you would have expected them to be? Transparency and protecting the consumers on all sides of your business (ie buyer and seller) does have its merits beyond just the ethical ones.


As an interesting aside, has there ever been industry-wide review(s) done? I know this is an iffy and quite subjective idea but it is done in most other industries and, to some degree, can act as a check and balance. Restaurants with consistent 2 stars aren't necessarily the number one place getting sold out on a Saturday night. Anyways, I digress.

So the other week I participated in an auction. I think it was their 1st live auction ( I believe) and it was frankly, a messy disorganized process. Bidders were actually calling in complaining about the internet and the auctioneer was publicly chastising SAN... When the auction closed I went and looked for the lots I had won and 4 were missing from the online system. I then called in and there was confusion. I then had to jump through some hoops to find the attached. Apparently it is what the auctioneer sees and did. It is available on SAN - you just have to click a lot and read the small print to find it.

In case anyone wants to see the SAN log for a particular live bidding auction as shown above by stamps4life this is how you access it:

1) Go to the closed auction section of SAN and find the auction you are interested in.
2) Click on "Join the Public Auction" at the top of the auction page.
3) You will see the live auction page with the bid buttons on the right hand side. Below the bid buttons you will see a link for "Auction Results Log". Click on it and you will see the entire log.

That's it. I had no idea info like that was available. It didn't seem so easy to find when I was trying to find it and figure out why I had 9 that I won and the House only had 5.

All Iive auctions on SAN have had this feature from day one. It is the auctions, that don't go live, are the ones you can't trust. There are very few auctions, that are 100% UNRESERVED. Just read the terms and conditions. If they are not listed as unreserved, in the terms of conditions of sale, then they maybe have a vested interest in the item, and hidden reserves, or listed reserves may be present. Any house, that does not go live, pretty much owns the stuff, and they are selling off a price list. Sometimes, they sell it, most often it shows up a few sales later. I have even seen Siegel's recycle unsold lots in future sales, because the in-house reserves have not been met. They listed one lot in three different sales until it sold. You find stuff like this out from the Extended Features in SAN.

Having consigned a lot of material with many houses over the years I can say that sometimes a lot just does not sell and the default direction is to list it again. Nothing nefarious or self-serving going on. None of my lots have had reserves per se unless you consider the opening bid a reserve which in a way it is unless the auctioneer calls for an offer and ends up with an angry consigner.