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Ebay Sellers Allowed To Sell Obvious Fakes

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1272 Posts
Posted 03/07/2022   1:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the law specifically allows that and has for over a quarter of a century:


While the selling of faked or stolen goods was the subject of my response, what appears below is from protection just reaffirmed for Facebook when the unlawful third party actions perpetrated on a teenaged child were so horrible, heinous, vile and gruesome that I cannot even mention them here in this family site.


This is a quote from a published opinion of the US Supreme Court issued today, March 7, 2022 verifying the scope of protection internet companies have under Sec. 230. The opinion statement for the court is from Justice Thomas:





The full opinion statement can be read here following page 6: https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders...zor_1a7d.pdf

The only hope is the last sentence of the opinion statement: "We should, however, address the proper scope of immunity under §230 in an appropriate case."



Edited to add photos.

Edit: Realized I could post screen shots instead of doing a copy/paste mashup.


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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/08/2022 03:23 am
Valued Member
89 Posts
Posted 03/08/2022   7:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shodan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,

Just letting you know the stamps department of eBay DOES care about this. The problem is that they cannot do anything about counterfeit sales unless WE let them know. They are not stamp experts. WE are!

The illegal stamp problem has spiraled out of control, and they are now everywhere. There is no automated way of getting rid of them...yet. Though it is archaic to say the least, they will react to reports if enough people file them. Unlike Hipstamp, they will remove sales and in some cases the seller. Delcampe will react harshly to it. I know because I am...internal in both venues.

If you spot a problem, let others know within your group and then unite in filing reports. Please remember that sales on the venue occur in days so not a lot of time to "stop" the sales, but if the seller is really bad, with enough input from YOU, the seller will be stopped with substantial evidence that the seller is being fraudulent.

Google "illegal stamps" to know what I am about.
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Pillar Of The Community
593 Posts
Posted 03/08/2022   8:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oracle of Delphi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shodan - just so I'm clear, since you are "internal" to eBay, to the best of your knowledge, eBay has removed any and all sellers that have been engaging in criminal activity or selling forged/faked/counterfeit stamps for which they have received credible reports from multiple observers? Including sellers that use multiple accounts that they have opened or obtained from other eBay clients to facilitate or obfuscate their questionable activities?

Thank you.

-- A concerned eBay buyer
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Posted 03/08/2022   8:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Somebody please notify the Cartel/Ryle.
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Posted 03/08/2022   9:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Been there done that with the reporting with and without SCF support on eBay et al. Externally I never noticed any great results.
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Posted 03/09/2022   10:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shodan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,

eBay has internal investigations into all reports of fraudulent sales on eBay. One big problem for them is the verification of them. With stamps it is critical to let them know sources of proof that the stamp is fake or illegal and so forth.

Just reporting a fraudulent sale is not enough without detailed information they can use against the sale. There are thousands of reports sent in daily. Many just say, "this is a fake" or "this seller is bad" and so forth. They cannot act on such a report and yes, it is ignored.

Oracle of Delphi, yes. If enough (3-5) different complaints come in on the same item, all with detailed verified evidence they can see
then they will act. I have been asked in several cases for a determination in which I have seen the reports.

A couple were outside my realm, but the users report pointed me to where the proof of forgery was as in a reference site with clear images that I was able to verify.

These criminal dealers will indeed have 5-6 accounts. Some have been shut down and immediately tried to open a new account. Connecting them can be difficult as it is easy to create accounts (on any venue) using different credentials. You think a counterfeit stamp dealer isn't going to use those options?

Here is yet another example of fraudulent dealers. A dealer on Delcampe who is a notorious illegal and bogus stamp peddling con, is kicked off. He gets his buddy to sell his stock for him on there now.
The buddy of course at first gets hammered for selling the counterfeits and complies with the removals. Then slowly (one by one) puts them on again in different titling and so forth. Until the buddy is kicked, the original criminal profits still. THAT criminal has accounts on all the venues and even on ebid, Etsy and Amazon. A major problem for THREE decades. Connected directly to what I call the British counterfeit producer. His "buddy" is ramping up enough evidence for removal. At present, that evidence is being gathered to get him to that point.

The key is unity when dealing with reporting. There are many reasons why one report is not acted on. As stated, details are important. References are important. Being seen among the thousands of reports is important. That is why one should consult and unite with others that can verify the fraud and then ALL report it. You might have to do this for weeks with a certain bad apple. Multiple reports by the same user on the same item will just be considered spam, so don't repeatedly do so. Now if the seller puts the item up again in the next week, new reports. Be consistent and don't give up.

Also, you must remember that eBay is a "fast track" site so if you are reporting an item that is due to sell in the next 24 hours, your out of luck. It is going to sell. There are many sellers of stamps on eBay who do not know what they are selling. I call them "randoms". It is the career counterfeit sellers we want. Persistent reporting by a number of different users on these career criminal sellers will get results in time. Yes, not in the time you and I want, but in time.

Having the attitude of just avoiding, ignoring, and the term "it does not effect me" really is not working is it? Those kind of attitudes have caused the stamp market to go into freefall with now thousands and thousands of fraudulent sales out there. Only with awareness and USE of that awareness can you curb the worst of it. Getting involved in yes, what we do not want to be involved in, has to happen to stop them.

I never thought I would be involved in this and really do not want to be. But because I gained the knowledge through years of research, I cannot just sit on my hands about it knowing what I know. If everyone were to get involved and work toward ending it, it would happen. You cannot win a fight without fighting.

Many in the philatelic world are not fighters. We are collectors and associate on those terms. It is against the nature of the collector and hobbiest to "fight". But now you must fight. Namely because the joy and excitement is being destroyed by these criminals who have only one intent.

To rip you off!

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 03/09/2022   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oracle of Delphi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shodan - thanks for the additional information. Could you address the specific example mentioned earlier of the Philip Ryle/Cartel accounts which operated for years, even with him in prison, well-known to many, reported on by many for years, yet eBay continued to allow them to exist. Has eBay finally expunged this seller/his confederates/all of his accounts?

Thank you.
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Posted 03/09/2022   12:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shodan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Oracle of Delphi,

I cannot say that all accounts for that cartel are gone. Like I said, these people are evil and will create new accounts under different credentials.

An organization such as this has many avenues to go down to continue sales. Obviously well organized. Same as the illegal stamp producers. The one I call the British producer has a worldwide network of distributors. Yes, you can pretty much count the illegal stamp producers on one hand! These few being responsible for now millions of illegal stamps spread across the world.

If you have evidence of any accounts still running or newly created by these people, posting the evidence will get us looking. All I can say.

In my dealings with eBay I have seen that certain sellers are much more difficult to stop than others because of status. Some are "sponsored" sellers that are deeply embedded into the system. They have tens of thousands of feedbacks and are looked at as "respectable" dealers. A ton of evidence must be obtained to break them. I can tell you it can and has been done to the point of (for example) removing a seller with 20k feedbacks.

Of course profits are a factor as well. But, eBay will take action when overwhelming evidence is presented. With illegal stamp sellers it requires showing hundreds (if not thousands) of the sales in reports. One such seller was making over 7k a month on Russian made counterfeits. That seller is now gone. He attempted making new accounts 3 times. All have been closed. One just last month. That last user name was mentioned in the Stampboards forum. They were trying to get rid of him. They did not do it. I can say no more except the account...is gone.

These criminals run in small circles. They are deeply connected with each other, agents, printers, and other dealers. This "cartel" may be associated with them as well. The dark side has grown much in the past two decades. Due to inaction by the UPU and the stamp associations as a whole. Many of these criminals have infiltrated the associations and societies. Some are leaders. It is bad....

Buying stamps in any venue is now dangerous. Without proper research you can get ripped at any turn. Sadly, my website was a reference on a printing company only but has since become the leading reference on illegal stamps. There are now around 160 countries and territories effected by them. Even Egypt!

Here is a real makes you wonder thing. You know all the U.S. counterfeits of modern U.S. stamps flooding the market? High resolution viewing of them shows the same printing methods used on forgeries of British stamps made in the 1980's. Is there a connection?

As I said earlier eBay does want to act on counterfeit and fraudulent sales. It just requires a lot of work from us to get it to the point that action is taken. The determination to remove sales or a user does have many legal issues involved that must be observed on eBay's part before this can happen.

You would not want your account closed or your sales closed just because someone says you are being fraudulent right? You basically have to show a person who is not a collector or even associated with stamps at all, why the sales or the seller needs to be shut down. That is extremely hard to do. Agreed?
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United States
701 Posts
Posted 03/09/2022   3:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
millions of illegal stamps spread across the world

I've never come across any "illegal stamps," whatever those are.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2982 Posts
Posted 03/09/2022   7:25 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shodan - the images the counterfeiters use in their eBay listings are not good enough to be able to prove they are counterfeits, but it is still possible to be confident they are selling counterfeits. When it was reported last year they were becoming more prevalent on eBay I went to the postage section and in a few minutes was easily able to ID one seller using 2 accounts that were clearly selling counterfeits. Way way too many current design rolls being offered (along with a sales history of a ton of rolls) at way way too low a price.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1272 Posts
Posted 03/09/2022   8:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
....at way way too low a price.


Saw them at $14.97 and $9.97 per 100 roll if more than one was purchased.
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3918 Posts
Posted 03/11/2022   04:30 am  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The issue here is, I believe, is that forgeries will be the end of being able to use stamps for mailing/shipping.

The end of the modern day mailing/shipping stamp draws nearer.
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