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Austria Scott 556B (White Paper 10s Costume Set) Imperf Pair?

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Posted 02/28/2022   9:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Recently acquired this, mostly on an agreement with the dealer that if it's not up to snuff that I can return it no harm done. Fellow collectors, have you seen anything like this? Michel says imperf exists and gives prices for them, but not for imperf pairs of course. They also mention a ticket for some kind of exhibition existing with this stamp "imperf" on it, though it has no gum. This example I have in my possession has white gum. Thoughts?

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Posted 02/28/2022   10:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cherrystone sold a pair like this in September 15-16 2020 sale described as:


Quote:
Lot 299: 1948 Costumes, 10sh gray imperforate vertical pair on yellowish proof paper, shiny gum, n.h., v.f., rare (ANK 923PUIII, Euro 1,000)


The paper is different. It went unsold.
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Posted 02/28/2022   10:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
HMM ok. This is both extremely helpful and totally parallel to my own issue. Thank you for your sharp eyes as always rogdcam!
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Posted 02/28/2022   11:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For the perf'd variety, ANK says the paper can be gray-tinged to yellowish-gray ("Graustichiges bis gelblichgraues Papier"), and the gum yellowish to off-white ("gelblicher bis grauweißer Gummi") for the whole 1948-1952 series. The original for this stamp is a bluish-gray color, yours though seems black or gray, but lighting and monitors don't necessarily represent these things accurately.

There is several listings in ANK for alternates which may also fit the bill. My guess is yours is one of the latter two, if genuine:
923 U, "ungezähnt in Originalfarbe" (imperforate in original color)
923 PU I,"ungezähnt in Probefarbe (imperforate in sample color)
923 PU IV, "Probe in schwarz auf weißen Kartonpapier" (sample in black on white cardstock).
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Edited by classic_paper - 02/28/2022 11:28 pm
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Posted 03/01/2022   12:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is too thin to be cardstock, unless they mean some thin kind of paper that in name alone is called cardstock. Imperforate in sample color, like a proof? Hard to gauge really since the stamp itself is meant to be that very color. If anything I'd need 100 to compare it to to see how off or spot on this ones color is
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Posted 03/01/2022   12:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think it may be the last one. Here's a sample: https://www.ebay.at/itm/164835274266
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Posted 03/01/2022   12:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh huh. Hmm. My issue is still that this FEELs like a stamp, not thick like cardstock. Unless, for instance, the austrians use some thin cardstock or something? Like this stamp, when not held flat in a vario, curls slightly. Would a cardstock "proof" do that? I truly admire your guys' detective work. Also, would a cardstock version have gum? This one has smooth shiny white gum. If this WERE a genuine issued imperf variety as catalogues say exist, how many would there be in a sheet?
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Edited by oldboldandbrash - 03/01/2022 12:51 am
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Posted 03/01/2022   01:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Kartonpapier" is variously translated as cardboard, cardstock, or card; I wouldn't necessarily take it as literally as our 2022-era American minds may interpret it. It's paper that's marginally thicker than the plain/normal paper commonly used for stamps; a number of German, Austrian, and Czech stamps from the late 19th to mid-20th used it, and all were meant for circulation. It's nothing like posterboard or a large-die American proof.
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Posted 03/01/2022   1:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know how you guys can have a opinion off of a computer screen and a picture from a scanner/ camera . While You are looking online at stamp pictures also . That is not the same as the stamp ,my guess is , it is a photo reproduction .
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Posted 03/01/2022   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
my guess is , it is a photo reproduction .


Why?
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Posted 03/01/2022   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't know how you guys can have a opinion off of a computer screen and a picture from a scanner/ camera .

It's easy to do, because it's just an opinion. You'll note that several times I use phrases like "if genuine," " lighting and monitors don't necessarily represent these things accurately," and the like.

Everything any of say about a stamp or cover that we don't have in our possession is an opinion. Scans, pictures, adjectives, all of it... too imprecise to render anything else from a hundred or a thousand miles away.
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Posted 03/01/2022   2:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Posted 03/01/2022   2:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Michel lists 4 different imperforate proofs - Michel 926 P I through P IV to pick from...

P I - "in abweichenden probefahren" (in different proof colours)
P II - "einzelabzuge in anderen farben" (individual prints in other colours)
P III - "auf gleblichem andruckpapier" (on yellowish proof paper)
P IV - (the one with the eBay link) - "in schwarz auf weißem kartonpapier, ungezahnt" (in black on whitish carton paper)

(source - Michel Austria specialized)

~Greg
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Edited by gmot - 03/01/2022 2:40 pm
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Posted 03/01/2022   3:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good stuff Greg. If I collected Austria, I would add it to my collection.
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Posted 03/01/2022   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No one reads the whole thread anymore.
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Edited by classic_paper - 03/01/2022 5:01 pm
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Posted 03/01/2022   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Classic Paper.


Quote:
923 PU IV, "Probe in schwarz auf weißen Kartonpapier" (sample in black on white cardstock).
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