Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Counterfeit Forever Stamps

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 80 / Views: 7,390Next Topic
Page: of 6
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2053 Posts
Posted 05/10/2023   4:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually one of the better anti-counterfeiting methods the USPS could use is also one of the oldest - they should start printing more stamps using (hand) line-engraved Intaglio printing. I'm guessing counterfeiters could still fool a lot of buyers, especially if they don't have a genuine example to compare it with, but engraved stamps are pretty hard to duplicate convincingly. Presumably a CAD/CAM driven computer could do a halfway decent job of copying the engraving, but it's pretty easy to tell a computer-driven engraving from one done by hand, in my opinion. Not to mention it would force the counterfeiters to invest in a bunch of new, expensive equipment.

Of course the USPS will never do this for many different reasons, but we as collectors can always dream....

The current problem with counterfeits might also explain why I haven't had letters franked with modern imperf/no die-cut stamps rejected as "pictures of stamps" in a long time, despite my sending hundreds of mailings with them. I used to have that happen fairly frequently. Anyway, I haven't heard of counterfeit, uncut, imperf press sheets on the market. Seeing an imperf pair/strip/block on an envelope might be the surest tipoff of all to the USPS that the stamps are genuine.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
10481 Posts
Posted 05/10/2023   7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think that they could pull off intricately engraved stamp issues if they cut back to just what is needed to make rates. The problem would then be the billions of non-engraved stamps floating around that will take years or even decades to clear. Unless you set an expiration date, but that dog will not hunt with Forever stamps. There would be an uprising from the population the likes of which we have not seen since the Bud Light fiasco.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
New Member
United States
2 Posts
Posted 05/11/2023   01:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nonesuch to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to a final USPS ruling posted April 11 on the U.S. Federal Register and explained in an April 20 Postal Bulletin, mail articles with counterfeit postage will henceforth be considered abandoned and disposed of at the discretion of the Postal Service. These new standards were supposed to go into effect this past weekend, so that as of May 7, the abandoned items "will no longer be returned to the sender." I'd expect there will be a reasonable volume of mail thus abandoned and destroyed, and folks wondering why their mail never made it to the destination, or why the item they ordered never arrived. The USPS advice for avoiding this problem: buy your stamps from the Post Office.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
728 Posts
Posted 05/12/2023   12:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let's say I buy some stamps from the USPS that missed getting their tagging. We know that does happen. Then I use one and the PO sees no tagging and assumes it is counterfeit and destroys it....
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2053 Posts
Posted 05/12/2023   5:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Let's say I buy some stamps from the USPS that missed getting their tagging. We know that does happen. Then I use one and the PO sees no tagging and assumes it is counterfeit and destroys it...

Possible, but not terribly likely. Regardless, ideally they should return items to sender, with markings or a "body bag" noting that the stamps are fake, otherwise the average person might be clueless why their mail isn't getting through. I assume they don't want to do that because it would incur more costs. But if the goal is to dis-incentivize the use of counterfeit stamps, it's hard to see how making mail disappear with no explanation is going to get that message across.

If that's how the USPS chooses to deal with the issue, they also need to launch a massive public service announcement and keep it up over an extended period of time. The simplest way would be (multiple) direct mailings to every household, but they probably should advertise in other media if they really want to get the message across.

Of course, I suspect that what's really going on is that the USPS doesn't really have any plan at all, and they're just merely trying to "put the fear of God" in people to scare them off discount postage, knowing full well that most counterfeits will continue to get through. If that's the case, it probably will have some effect and has the added benefit of being without any significant financial cost.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
559 Posts
Posted 05/12/2023   6:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Teraw" ads are everywhere, to include eBay.

I think they are using an Alaska address.

Hard to understand why USPIS is not actively fighting this issue.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
169 Posts
Posted 05/13/2023   12:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gvol21 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure why they just don't make it illegal to purchase forever stamps at less than face value. Violators will be prosecuted, etc. Send out an educational mailer to every household in the US explaining the rules and why this is necessary to avoid counterfeits.

Won't solve the problem entirely (people selling counterfeit postage out of their trunk?) but I think a strict policy plus an education campaign would help.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
10481 Posts
Posted 05/13/2023   08:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From a USPS 12 May press release:


Quote:
Defeating counterfeit postage In FY2022, the Postal Service and Postal Inspection Service seized more than 340,000 packages with counterfeit postage and more than 7.7 million counterfeit stamps with an estimated $7.8 million loss avoidance for the Postal Service. Expanded actions to crack down on fraudulent postage include:

Postal Service interdictions of packages with counterfeit labels affixed. The Postal Service will fully exercise new authority to take possession and dispose of packages identified with counterfeit postage.

Reviews of shipments on Postal Service docks and during warehouse outreach visits

Shut down of websites and closure of eCommerce accounts selling counterfeit postage

Engagement and partnership with eCommerce companies to disrupt activity


Customs and Border Protection (CBP) collaboration

Promotion of the Inspection Service's rewards program which provides rewards for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a person that unlawfully uses, reuses, or forges postage stamps, postage meter stamps, permit imprints, or other postage; or uses, sells, or possesses with the intent to sell any used, forged, or counterfeit postage stamp or other postage.


https://about.usps.com/newsroom/nat...il-theft.htm
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
559 Posts
Posted 05/13/2023   11:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StateRevs to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Shut down of websites and closure of eCommerce accounts selling counterfeit postage


Easy test.

How long will we continue to see Teraw active?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
728 Posts
Posted 05/13/2023   2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

It's not like these folks are hard to find. I searched google for "Discount Postage", it's not only the first one on the results, it is the sponsored ad:

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
245 Posts
Posted 05/15/2023   12:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Perf10 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't particularly care for the following idea, but, since Forever stamps are growing closer to $1 each, and $1 Federal Reserve Notes have unique serial numbers printed on them, maybe it is time for stamps to have unique serial numbers too, then while sorting mail USPS machinery could read the serial number and hold for further scrutiny anything lacking a valid number.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Perf10 - 05/15/2023 12:23 pm
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
189 Posts
Posted 05/29/2023   02:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ZebraMan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi @Uknjay,
Your wisdom is much appreciated here. In addition to printing processes, you may have an insiders view of many USPS standard practices.
In another thread, you wrote,

Quote:
Lost envelopes and packages are sent to the dead letter morge. Where every effort is made to determine where it is going or where it was sent from. In an effort to return it to in rightful owner. In some cases it can not be done. In this case it is placed in bonds and sold at auction to the highest bidder as dead mail.

In this thread about counterfeit forever stamps, an April 20th Postal Bulletin is mentioned that "mail articles with counterfeit postage will henceforth be considered abandoned and disposed of at the discretion of the Postal Service", and further a May 12 Press Release says "The Postal Service will fully exercise new authority to take possession and dispose of packages identified with counterfeit postage."

Would you know if the USPS will follow the Dead Letter protocol to identify the sender of the mail items lacking legitimate postage and return them, possibly Postage Due, or does the USPS literally plan to dispose (destroy, shred, burn) mail that was sent (intentionally or unknowingly) with fake stamps?

How does the USPS determine genuine vs counterfeit? I'm sure there are top secret methods that the USPS will not disclose, but my concern is about false positives. If on my letters I use pre 1960s stamps without tagging, how can I know this new machinery won't confiscate my letters thinking they are fake stamps (without tagging)?

And is the sender notified when the USPS disposes of a customer's mail, through Inform Delivery or other methods? Or is their only notification of the confiscated mail a Late Fee from their credit card company or a missed car payment?

What if the mail is sent Certified or Insured with counterfeit postage. Is that also destroyed? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks in advance for your facts and/or opinions.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
11889 Posts
Posted 05/29/2023   04:46 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The USPS Mail Recovery Center is located in Atlanta, Georgia. Since April 2013, the postal auctions have been held online and include not only material lost in the U.S. but also material from other national postal authorities who consign them to the USPS for auction. The MRC received about 67 million items in fiscal year (FY) 2019.

There was (is?) a significant theft problem at this center where the lack of oversight resulted in employees walking out with significant (some estimates put the number of one million dollars) amounts of gift cards and cash. The OIG looked into this issue in 2015 and issued a report, it is here https://www.uspsoig.gov/reports/aud...audit-report
And another OIG 2020 report here
https://www.uspsoig.gov/reports/aud...overy-center

And here is the Mail Recovery Center Guidelines
https://about.usps.com/postal-bulle...info_005.htm

I did a short presentation on the history of the DLO, it is here
6Le8m3gLXZw

Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
116 Posts
Posted 05/29/2023   07:15 am  Show Profile Check Uknjay's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Uknjay to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I can only say the USPS can identify counterfit postage. What they will do with it I do not know. It costs the USPS a lot of money every year in lost revenue. I can only say it is best to not use counterfit stamps. If you use untaxed stamps per 1960. I live person will look at the face of the envelopes and packages. If older stamps are used and are genuine the item will return to active transport and go on to ii's destination.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3385 Posts
Posted 05/29/2023   10:40 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Would you know if the USPS will follow the Dead Letter protocol to identify the sender of the mail items lacking legitimate postage and return them, possibly Postage Due, or does the USPS literally plan to dispose (destroy, shred, burn) mail that was sent (intentionally or unknowingly) with fake stamps?"

Under this new policy they will not make any attempt to return the item or notify the sender. I have no idea whether they plan on destroying it or adding it to the dead letter pile that is auctioned off.

" I live person will look at the face of the envelopes and packages. If older stamps are used and are genuine the item will return to active transport and go on to ii's destination."

Only if the can ID them as genuine. Plenty of USPS workers are not familiar with all the stamps that have been issued.

"my concern is about false positives:

Legit concern.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 6 Previous TopicReplies: 80 / Views: 7,390Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.15 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05