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How Do You Account For These Listed Values?

 
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Posted 05/07/2022   11:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stamps4Life to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Curious to know - is this the norm?

Awhile back I bought a bunch of stuff at Dutch Country Auction. Varied lots of whatever grabbed me. Now this was 3 years ago and I still have a bunch left to keep me busy. In one of the lots is a put together small 3 ring binder of world stamps of "huge catalog value". Total stamps in this binder, maybe 200 - guessing. Like this:



-Included and listed as Monserrat Sc 95a - catalog value 16.00 has a 2019 listed value as 1.00

-included and listed as Mexico Sc O167 cat value 30.00 is really O181a 2019 value 2.15

-included and listed as Myanmar Sc342 cat value 22.50 is 2019 Scott value of 2.75

-included and listed as Myanmar Sc 341 cat value 15.00 is 2019 Scott value of 1.75

I also know that in going through the binder I have come across other stamps mislabeled and with wildly different catalog values between my 2019 catalog values and what's listed on the sheets.

Now the Myanmar stamps may not be a good example seeing as there is a warning for values listed for this set in the Scott listing.

So, how do auction houses handle this huge difference in what is listed on the item vs catalog pricing? Are these differences "normal"? Maybe the listed catalog values were what they were when the previous owner put the collection together? Guessing not though as the differences are pretty big...

They (Auction house) obviously dont check each and every item. There was no disclaimer other than, from what I recall, that if you dont return items, sale final. Do they thrown a number on it and call it a day?

I have not narrowed down the exact lot so I cannot say for sure how much I paid. I do now that I am not looking to make money - but do find this huge discrepancy curious. Maybe the "catalog" value was 2500 total and I only paid 200 for this stuff thrown in with 1,000's of other stamps???


Is this the norm?





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Posted 05/08/2022   12:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a reason why people only pay fractions of catalog for that stuff.
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Posted 05/08/2022   12:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes the wiggle language is that the owner state the catalog value is $XXX.xx.

I purchased an auction lot, via telephone bid and just the catalog description (could not view the lot) so described, a special delivery "collection" with a extremely high "owner's catalog value". With the lot came the owner's work sheet for value. The owner had one price for a Scott number of $1500.00. That was arrived at by multiplying the $0.15 used value by 10,000 the minimum numbers of stamps estimated to be present by weight. My comment to the Auction Firm was that even Scott Catalog states that the catalog minimum is not valid for multiple copies of the same item. The best I got from the auction firm was I could send them the lot and they would re-run the lot for me without commission. The conversation go testy when I was pointing out that they had no truthful basic to even quote the knowingly inaccurate catalog value based upon what the catalog itself says.

To this day I get a bad taste in my mouth every time I buy something from the auction firm. But I will not bid on any lot for which the items are not shown in their entirety without prior examination. I am not surprised a few folks who are on this board worked for the firm and are not giving it glowing reviews.
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Posted 05/08/2022   09:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is a reason why people only pay fractions of catalog for that stuff.


Yes. Now, I see why that would happen.
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Posted 05/08/2022   09:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The owner had one price for a Scott number of $1500.00. That was arrived at by multiplying the $0.15 used value by 10,000 the minimum numbers of stamps estimated to be present by weight.

I don't follow that reasoning! As I said, there is probably some disclaimer somewhere. Lesson learned. 2 responses don't make a "norm", but clearly this seems to occur.
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Posted 05/08/2022   09:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is their CYA policy.




No complaint, no return.
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Posted 05/08/2022   10:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In my experience, this is pretty common on bulk mixed lots - particularly worldwide ones - where the auction house has taken the "owner's catalogue value" and IDs as given. Sometimes they will mark a few high CV's as suspect or NC (no charge) them if obvious forgeries - but for mid-range stamps like this, they will not - because it would be a large amount of work - check the ID of each item in the lot and adjust CV as needed. The mis-IDs can go either way of course, from lower to higher CV as well.

In short, when I buy a bulk mixed lot like this I apply a "owner's CV" discount - based on the pics, description and previous experience with the auction house - to come up with what I think is a more realistic CV.
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Posted 05/08/2022   1:09 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
" or NC (no charge)"

NC - not counted
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Posted 05/08/2022   2:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oops - yes, what I meant - thanks for correction.
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Posted 05/08/2022   3:00 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Channeling your inner Tammy Wynette, I suppose. Peroxide everywhere.
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Posted 05/08/2022   11:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamps4life, check out the paragraph (12) directly above (13) the one you showed and higlighted. Thats the one that covers all and any errors, ommissions, or "descriptive lingo" on larger lots. 10 stamps or more and generally its yours once you bid. But if the description is totally incorrect, I believe most dealers will work with you to a resolution. Large box lots and hodgepodges of goods would generally only get a quick general scan for any standout better items to determine a fair value.

Honestly though, they may have been priced years earlier and prices have come down. I have purchased several larger dealer lots and found that on several lots. I have noticed that in the last 10 to 15 years the catalogue prices have dropped on more common stuff from 25 to 50 years ago for the general collector. It is now the items from about 15 years ago to now that have a high catalogue value that people will be looking to buy as well the fact that many are produced in much smaller quantities than in years past.
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Posted 05/09/2022   2:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tks No1philatelist.... I out of curiosity called Dutch Country Auctions and talked to Richard Russell I think his name was. he said he was the owner anyhow. Very nice. Im not looking to return the items or get a refund - I said I was just curious how its worked. he said basically - on large lot stuff: Buy at risk. On items that are called out and listed specifically, they will work with you if in error. And as someone stated here - sometimes one ends up with a 10 dollar stamp that was listed as a 1$... I just thought it weird that there were such huge differences between what's listed and what I have. LIVE and LEARN!!
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Edited by Stamps4Life - 05/10/2022 10:40 am
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Posted 05/10/2022   07:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting topic. I actually think that it is an art to describe these types of auction lots so as to intrigue potential buyers while adding camouflaged caution at the same time. And of course, as has been pointed out, there is always the T&Cs to fall back on for the House. There have been other SCF topics specific to auction lot description puffery so I won't go there but it can be quite entertaining.
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Posted 05/10/2022   10:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it can be entertaining ... Off topic - I remember years ago someone gave us (me) a subscription to a cigar magazine for Christmas. And I've since then alway gotten a kick how people can describe the nuance of a cigar. The flowery embellished descriptions are nuts. The same goes for wine magazines and wines or even sommeliers at restaurants.
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Posted 05/20/2022   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
so I should maybe post this in another area, but... I finished one auction album and I couldn't resist pulling another to glance at before I put things away of awhile. Seeing as I had finished up on Danish W Indies, I looked at the first one in the new album I was gong to start next.... Another Dutch Country Purchase.... Look at the 1st one listed as 18b - Inverted Frame. But its not inverted, right?!?



page as in album here:


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Posted 05/20/2022   6:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a normal frame.
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