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Want Your Opinion 10A Or 11A On Cover Is It A 100j? What Would You Do With It

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Posted 05/18/2022   06:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jgoody2shoes to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello to all! On this particular cover, I think it is an 11a but possibly a 10a. It appears to meet the criteria for a 100J. Should I get the cover certified first and then remove the stamp and have it graded? I don't think any of the certifying entities will do both "on cover". All opinions will be appreciated! Thank you! J.T. Goodwin


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Edited by jgoody2shoes - 05/18/2022 06:12 am

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Posted 05/18/2022   06:21 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Why would you remove the stamp from the cover for the purpose of "grading"? Any potential buyer would be perfectly capable of seeing the clear margins and the relationship to adjoining stamps.
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Posted 05/18/2022   07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plus you risk the possibility of hidden damage such as a thin. And it would not get 100 anyway. See PF cert 584430 for example.

http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...lledfrom=lkp
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Posted 05/18/2022   07:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Or 578947.
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Posted 05/18/2022   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jgoody2shoes to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I think those two examples aren't in the same league! This stamp has parts of all 8 adjoining stamps and your examples do not! Anyone else with an opinion? Thanks anyway for your opinion.
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Posted 05/18/2022   07:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jgoody2shoes to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GeoffHa, I agree that anyone could see the margins. The purpose for grading is a matter of value added. Have you seen the difference in graded US stamp vs ungraded with comparable quality? Also, revcollector, why do you think it would NOT get a 100 designation? Thank you both!
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Posted 05/18/2022   08:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do think that your 11A could attain a 100 without the jumbo designation.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....emailflag=on

That being said I do not believe that the "juice is worth the squeeze" when it comes to removing the stamp from the cover. Leave it be IMO.



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Posted 05/18/2022   08:03 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'd rather assumed that collectors would have sufficient intelligence to look at a stamp and see four clear margins without someone in an office telling them that was so. No-one here would "grade" a 1d black or 2d blue. And, as Rev says, floating it off the cover could reveal problems that aren't obvious, as well as reducing its general interest.
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Posted 05/18/2022   08:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd rather assumed that collectors would have sufficient intelligence to look at a stamp and see four clear margins without someone in an office telling them that was so.


Better contact Siegel to let them know that the entire grading thing has been unnecessary so that they can alert their clients.
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Posted 05/18/2022   08:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Removing the stamp is a lose-lose. The first loss is the philatelic interest/history, used stamps always have more interest and information when still tied to their cover. Second, you lose: getting a stamp graded means nothing to any hobbyist who'd consider buying it in the first place. Certification shows genuineness; grading is just a crass attempt to commoditize, like sports cards. It's a marketing scheme not well-received in philately. I at least have never met anyone who actually cared beyond F/VF and XF, if even that.

But you own the piece. If you want to argue against the advice you asked for and ruin it (IMO), it's your right to do so.
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Posted 05/18/2022   08:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
getting a stamp graded means nothing to any hobbyist who'd consider buying it in the first place. Certification shows genuineness; grading is just a crass attempt to commoditize, like sports cards. It's a marketing scheme not well-received in philately. I at least have never met anyone who actually cared beyond F/VF and XF, if even that.


These topics always end up with these comments about grading.

Not sure how anyone can make such statements with a straight face if they look at the sheer volume and value of graded stamp transactions at all levels within the stamp market.
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Posted 05/18/2022   08:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jgoody2shoes to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
classic_paper, I have no intentions of getting rid of the cover. The stamp can be carefully removed and then replaced. I agree, it would be much more desirable on cover and I have always intended to keep it that way anyhow. Thanks so much for all the comments and opinions. Hope all can at least enjoy the cover a bit. Just wanted to see what the community thought about the cover if it were in their hands. Thanks again! J.T.
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Edited by jgoody2shoes - 05/18/2022 08:55 am
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Posted 05/18/2022   10:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While your margins may qualify for 100J (as it appears to show parts of all surrounding stamps), there may be a problem. Based on your scan the stamp appears to have some gum staining or toning along the right and along the bottom. If this is true it would not get a 100J, but a lower grade.

I am not advocating removal of this stamp, but the price that a clean 100J would attain would far outstrip what this cover could sell for. SMQ for a used 11A in a grade of 100J is $1,000.00. A stamp with a PSE certificate giving it a grade of 100J used should easily sell for $250.00. I doubt that anyone would pay $50.00 for this cover given the large toned spots at the center and the lack of an exciting usage.
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Posted 05/18/2022   10:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The stamp can be carefully removed and then replaced.

I can't imagine anyone doing this. People do this? What? There's a market for covers that had the stamp(s) purposefully removed, ruining the integrity of the piece, to get an arbitrary number/grade and then glued back on?


Quote:
if they look at the sheer volume and value of graded stamp transactions at all levels

Relative, isn't it? Drop in the bucket compared to the hobby in the US or as a worldwide whole. And since PSE charges a minimum of $10 per stamp and PF $27, I'm wary of your "all levels" claim. If a numerical grade comes as part of expertizing then so be it. Beyond that, meh. I think Ken is right: http://www.virtualstampclub.com/grading_kl.html
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Posted 05/18/2022   10:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jgoody2shoes to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
classic_paper, it is not done often, but it can be expertly done by a professional conservator by using the original gum on the stamp, it's a process that has existed for many decades. If done so, it doesn't lose its integrity. Some valuable covers with certain watermarking may actually need to be done so to ascertain the watermark and/or other pertinent identification factors. The stamps aren't "glued" back on, that would be ridiculous!
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Posted 05/18/2022   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some valuable covers with certain watermarking may actually need to be done so to ascertain the watermark and/or other pertinent identification factors.


That is a true statement and often overlooked as a necessary and fully accepted method of verifying what stamp is on cover. A dated cancel or other cover markings do not always allow for proper determination. When done, the cover is not devalued, rather it has the value verified since all now know what it is that is being valued.


Quote:
Relative, isn't it? Drop in the bucket compared to the hobby in the US or as a worldwide whole. And since PSE charges a minimum of $10 per stamp and PF $27, I'm wary of your "all levels" claim


I just did an eBay search and sort. There are 267 PSE graded stamps currently listing at or under $50.00 including shipping. The most recent one I saw (did not look for this, it just jumped out) was a self adhesive airmail from 2001. As some may know I collect C-46 and I have lost count of the number of graded copies I have seen offered, on eBay or in person. At this moment you can buy on eBay a MNH plate block of six for $7.96 including shipping or a MNH graded 100 margin single for $240.00 with free shipping. That PSE cert was obtained 12-15-2021.


Quote:
...grading is just a crass attempt to commoditize...


Anything thing and everything can be subject to commoditization. The fact is that how the value of the commodity is perceived varies by ones financial situation. Some folks may be concerned over pennies while others can afford to lose a million plus on a stamp. A field of rice may have no value to you but a grain of rice has value to a starving individual. As to most anything, including the stamp hobby or profession, if not for commoditization a market would not exist.

Not that I wish to beat a dead horse over the fact many higher end classic collectors turn their nose up at low level (read little money invested) collectors nor seem to appreciate those whose very existence depends on planning well, counting pennies and a hint of good luck. Speaking of dead horses, even they have value as a commodity:





Lastly even plain old unaltered naturally and unnaturally polluted air has value, huge value at times. When the check cleared this household noticed a large five figure balance increase from selling just some "air space" above a New York building and that represented just a small fraction of the total sale amount in seven figures.

All that said, I must agree with wtcrow that if financial gain was the goal, the soaked stamp with a 98 or 100 grade would bring more return than the current entire cover.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not paid for a graded certificate nor have I specifically purchased a graded stamp because it was graded.
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