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Questionable Sellers Offering Photocopy Essay-Fantasy Items

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/31/2022   1:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
parcelpostguy (PPG for short) wrote:

Quote:
Me life is too short and this is not a hill I want to climb let alone die upon. Have at it. But once you get Iamaselleroffakes dropped from eBay (if they don't just add 'fantasy' to each listing) the seller will return as Iamaselleroffakesprime.


PPG you, and those who share your brand of post-modern cynicism, are your own worst enemies. Do you wash the dishes after eating? Why? What's the point? They're just going to get dirty again. Throw 'em in the sink to keep them out of the way; maybe rinse 'em off once in a while. Good enough, right?

What you, and the post moderns who think like you, are overlooking is the old rationalist observation by Edmund Burke that "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." If you think that ducking and hiding and staying under the radar is going to save you, then you REALLY haven't been paying attention to the news lately.

Since you asked about my spending on eBay, my tally for the last 90 days is a rather paltry $435. How about you? I started with eBay in the late 1990s, and since then my tab is a bit over $300K. You too? In that period I have seen all manner of fraud and customer victimization by wise guys out to make a buck by skinning a mark for whatever they can get. But unlike you that has not made me anxious and fearful and apprehensive. Why not? Because far more often than not I got exactly what I was trying to get with my $300K. I learned how to become an informed discriminating buyer, how to make it work, and what to do about it when things began to go south. And I'm happy to share that. What you must do is equip yourself with knowledge, and based on your rhetoric in your many posts that is NOT what you are standing up for in this thread.

To beat the bad guy you have to use your head. Running and hiding isn't going to help. Pooling knowledge, information, and action with others, such as we could be doing on this list, will help. That is what Don has been all about, and it has been a motivation for Bobby to keep this thing going. That is what motivated me to come here and report what some bad guys on eBay have been doing. I did not start this thread because I need protection from the bad guys. I started it to call attention to a particular abuse that needs YOUR attention to help speak against it. A collective voice. The nay-sayers will try to convince you that eBay doesn't care. I feel sorry for those who are convinced of that, because that has not been my experience. eBay has a vested interest in keeping consumer confidence in the service they provide. But since the solo voice is too small, we must speak out together. This thread was started to help us do that in one particular case. Small perhaps, but not insignificant. Like doing the dishes.

Don and Bobby get it, PPG; I don't know why you don't.
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Edited by essayk - 05/31/2022 1:58 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/31/2022   3:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Do you wash the dishes after eating?


Not the paper plates. Those go into the worm compost.


Quote:
is for good men to do nothing


I informed the buyer of said material as well as the balance of the club's membership that evening.


Quote:
How about you?


Mid four figures, no decimal point.


Quote:
You too?


I live in California where theft is accepted, thus I will not discuss this amount. There are also foreign nationals doing targeted residential burglaries in my area of the state. I will say that I have lost over $300K during the last 6 years with the tax forms to back it up. All it resulted in was a misdemeanor conviction for trespass and twelve months court probation followed by two more arrests of the individual on my property released with notices to appear. Prior to that, a larger loss in the family resulted in two state prison convictions. During that period I lost a friend at the hands of another with that killer getting a few months in county jail due to the mistakes of the arresting officer. I understand holding folks accountable far more than you understand as well as understanding no matter the efforts made, one is not made whole, and, it is best to just move on with your life.

This all without discussing my so-called "day job." Nor my other activity educating others about not being taken advantage of for 5 decades and two months.


Quote:
What you must do is equip yourself with knowledge, and based on your rhetoric in your many posts that is NOT what you are standing up for in this thread

Quote:
YOUR attention to help speak against it.


I have been informing folks philatelically for 45 years, sharing what I have learned along the way. As noted above I did the same with your information. This is not part of what was referred to above for a period of 50 years, two months.


Quote:
But since the solo voice is too small, we must speak out together.


When others join their voice without first being they themselves fully informed of the fraudulence with the ability to so demonstrate that fraudulence then what is not occurring is informed conversation; rather it is mob rule. I do not agree with mob rule, no matter the goal.

Where you and I differ is where and how to attack this issue. I see the problem not with eBay, but with the sellers in question. You claim eBay self interest is keeping a clean market place. How does that statement of yours align with the huge sports card grading scandal which involved eBay and ran for years until it really came to light publicly in later 2021?

You and I are looking at the same goal, protecting collectors. However we do not agree to the method. I believe the sellers are responsible, not eBay; and while I welcome what eBay "says" they are or will do about fraud, I do not believe that by law they must do anything. Tools, and eBay is a tool, tools do not do anything on their own, they are inanimate objects. The correct or incorrect use of the tool is driven by the user, not the tool. Restricting users rather than taking the tool away from all proper lawful users is not a tack with which I agree. I like to drive a car, use a table saw, open boxes with a box cutter, write with a pencil, target practice to stay accurate and use a chainsaw before the axe to split firewood. Each tool in the hands of someone who wishes to do ill for their own gain can and has caused great damage and death. On a personal note, I happen to be carrying my 16 inch crescent wrench with me on my car's front seat. I did not use it as intended rather used it in a threatening manner as a weapon. I did so and with it, broke up an active kidnapping allowing the adult female victim to escape trough an open window tearing off her clothing while doing so. It was not the tool that chose to be a weapon, it was me, the operator of the tool, the tool was blameless. I lost my spare T-shirt to the woman and she was walked into the sheriff's station by a captain who happen by as this occurred in the street in front of the station. If not for the red light the van and the victim were seconds away from an interstate freeway on ramp and anonymity. My time would have not been better spent recording vehicle and occupant descriptions with the license number and neatly and completely relating that information to the sheriff's office. While some would, that may very well have cost a life.

Please don't claim knowledge about my involvement nor lack of same. As the wife reminds me when I give her "the look" about comments she makes, she is on my side. And I, on yours.

So we agree in goal, but must agree to disagree in method and path to the mutual goal.



(Edited for spelling and punctuation.)
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 05/31/2022 4:00 pm
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Posted 05/31/2022   7:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is like two attorney's discussing what constitutes "hot" coffee. (No offense to Chris Palermo) Way off into the weeds.

The material is fake and not marked as such thus breaking eBay's own rules. The issue is really about lack of enforcement on eBay's part. Simple.

PS: Love the wrench story. I once used a Schnauzer to block a cell phone initiated VBIED in Karada. I will tell you more someday.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Posted 06/02/2022   1:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PPG I appreciate that we are closer together in ambition than what you may have allowed originally. But it is just as clear that you really have not understood what I am trying to do.

you said:

Quote:
You and I are looking at the same goal, protecting collectors. However we do not agree to the method. I believe the sellers are responsible, not eBay; and while I welcome what eBay "says" they are or will do about fraud, I do not believe that by law they must do anything. Tools, and eBay is a tool, tools do not do anything on their own,


I too share the opinion that the sellers are responsible and not eBay. [Your analogy about tools is quite graphic, but it overlooks one important point. The tools you mentioned are not rational thinking human beings. But the complex we call " eBay" is, and in that respect in this context it is not a "tool" at all. You do not wield eBay as you would something or someone that serves your will.] With eBay you must learn to "coordinate" effort. So also with a group from this list.

While hobby protection (for participants and for enterprise) is certainly my domain of interest, my goal in this case has been more specific. From the first post onward I have sought to alert readers to the selling of fakes by two named individuals. [BTW subsequent monitoring has left me convinced that the first seller, dach-3543, does not routinely traffic in the kind of fakes that caught my attention here. Far and away most of his feedback is from transactions in which he was the buyer. Of 115 transactions only one comment resulted from a sale, and I cannot comment on the authenticity of that item. So far I have not seen feedback for the item I flagged in this thread.]

Of the two sellers far and away the majority of the fakes are being handled by romad-stamps, and this has not abated. I do not believe that fakes are all they handle, but there is no short supply of items I can categorically identify as fakes (probably as photocopies). It is legally permissible for this seller to make photocopies and sell them on eBay for whatever the market will bear. But as rogdcam also observed, this seller is not labeling them as reproductions/copies/facsimiles etc. By that action s/he implies the items are authentic and crosses a line eBay has set down for sellers. Moreover, the seller does not identify the items by any standard catalog numbers, thereby avoiding the claim that certain known collectables are being represented or misrepresented. Therefore, to establish conclusively that any item is NOT what is being claimed of it, it is necessary to have obtained some examples of the same kind to show what they really are. Only then can we present any kind of case to eBay.

That won't be easy, because the seller uses shill bidders to help shield the sales of these items. I can identify but three shills, out of how large a pool I do not know. Many of these fakes are "sold" to shills (You can see the patterns in the feedback scores.) Obviously, once the seller figures out that bidder 4xyz (your feedback score) is out to unmask him/her/them(?) it wouldn't be long before you are consistently outbid by shills. And last second snipes would have to contend with unreasonably large numbers. How much are you willing to pay for a photocopy? Return for a refund? Really?

It will take a coordinated effort to crack this. I wouldn't do anything until the coordination was clear and working. I do have some ideas on how to approach that, but until others have voiced interest or concern I do not see the merit in spilling that to this list. I spent half of yesterday at the home of an essay-proof dealer I know, and might bring him up to speed on this problem to see what the ASDA* could, can, or should do about it.

Be all that as it may, I do believe that if we could coordinate on this we could make a difference. Bringing down a scammer is not a solution, but it is something we can do. But, like those dirty dishes, it doesn't end with just one cleaning.

*I do realize that the ASDA is limited to policing its members and cannot act directly on eBay frauds. But perhaps the principles they espouse might be instructive for any action group.
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Edited by essayk - 06/02/2022 1:54 pm
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Posted 06/02/2022   3:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What we refer to as eBay is most certainly a tool made from hardware and software with no humans wired in. Except for the most simple and basic tools (think rock, stick or gravity for example) all human tools are human created. No matter the level of anthropomorphic characteristics imbued, tools are not thinking humans. Now, I have known some human tools, and even listen to music by Tool but I digress.

As with all tools, changes can be made in the creation of the tool by the humans creating the tool. As such eBay is a tool, the design of which is changeable by humans. Now that said, many tools can be altered by the user, think a cheater for a pipe or crescent wrench. As a tool eBay does not lean itself to much post production improvement by a user.

Now to a definition for this post: "RICH" rich means no wondering where one can safely rest tonight and being unconcerned about having enough to eat tomorrow.

Someone selling pretty pieces of paper with misdirected names on the internet is, take your slang choice:

1. A problem of the rich.
2. A first world problem.
3. A white people problem.
4. A problem one should be happy to have.

So, yours is a battle I understand but one gets to pick one's own battles and for now, this is not a battle I am choosing. I am wishing you well in your war.

Now to some quotes from which I trust readers can draw insight:

1. Churchill: "You have enemies? Good that means you've stood up for something sometime in your life." [I have enemies]

2a. Bruce Lee: "Take things as they are. Punch when you have to punch. Kick when you have to kick." [I have no "have to" here.]
2b. "A fight is not won by one punch or kick. Either learn to endure or hire a body guard." [Nor the time to endure.]

3. Jonathan Kozel (do not imply I agree with his politics): "Pick battles big enough to matter but small enough to win." [I believe this is the Achilles heel here. ]

4. Unknown (to me): "Choose your battles wisely because if you fight them all you'll be too tired to win the really important ones." [I get to define "important."]

5. Theodore Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." [Included due to the "critic" statements in earlier posts. I have the dirt tattoos and scars as well as the mementos of victory.]


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an important battle to which I must return.

Edited: For formatting
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/02/2022 3:59 pm
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Posted 06/02/2022   4:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not much of a "war". Just click the Report This Item" button.
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Posted 06/03/2022   10:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 06/21/2022   3:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A friend of mind called my attention to this item being offered by yet a third seller in Canada (egnatia_shop) who has been reported and discussed earlier at SCF ( http://goscf.com/t/80334&whichpage=1 ):



This is a variation on this item, which was offered by the second seller I reported in this thread earlier:



Similar paper and similar printing style. Same primary source?

Note that in the case of the "pair" that the separation of the two designs is less than the surrounding space, but there are no partial designs (edges) showing. It would seem that they were produced as a pair only by the copy artist.

This design was only ever produced as an engraved die item on India paper, which may or may not remain die sunk on its original card backing. Pairs, blocks, or other multiples simply do not exist, except as fantasies created (in this case) well after the fact.

Here is what it should look like:



Or a clean one in ultramarine:




As for buying fantasy items, the seller should tell you that is what you are buying. For material like that being offered, if nothing is said, you are being played.
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Posted 06/21/2022   5:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Even the location stated for Egnatia Shop is fake. They are based in Albania. ALL of the BPP signatures are fake and yet they keep on pumping them out.
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Posted 06/21/2022   5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For now all of these fake US essay items offered by romad-stamps and egnatia-shop have been withdrawn by order of eBay. Examples of what they were selling remain in their listings of sold items, but you have to scroll down to see them. Upon request a voice of authority known to eBay took care of it. No telling how long that will hold true, so we need to monitor it.



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Posted 06/25/2022   4:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Likewise I own hundreds (not an exaggeration) of the fraudulent "Naco Express" covers usually involving PP and PPD stamps all destined for the APS reference collection some day. Well discussed in an article about their creation, but that article was published by the APS back in the early 1970s. A quick check of my calendar shows it is now a half century later and likely not common knowledge among collectors. Sellers nor eBay care on whit when I mention that it is a faked item when such appear.


While looking for some images I happened upon these which I show now to illustrate the referenced false "NACO EXPRESS" marking:



US 2 cent Parcel Post stamp added and tied by false NACO box marking.





US 2 cent Parcel Post stamp added and tied by false NACO box marking. However what makes this an unusual NACO fraud is the additional NACO Boxed Fake marking on the reverse. The vast majority of the fakes did not have the marking added to the back.

Sadly, the faker started with perfectly good, collective covers before damaging them for fraud purposes.


EDIT: Posted here, last post 1st page is a proper mixed Mexico/US franking for comparison-- http://goscf.com/t/81171 .
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/25/2022 4:35 pm
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Posted 06/28/2022   02:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tiger Dude to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a note - if you purchase a forgery, when you report it you don't even have to send it back for the refund.
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Posted 06/28/2022   03:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to know more. Certification required? If not, who determines the forgery? How do you report the forgery? Who pays for the cert? Is this written in stone somewhere about not having to return the stamp?
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Edited by redwoodrandy - 06/28/2022 03:23 am
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Posted 06/28/2022   12:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eBay's procedure is that the buyer of the (suspected) fake must report the listing with whatever support they have, and also attempt to get a refund from the seller. Beyond that, is entirely up to the results of eBay's investigation, should they open one to begin with. That's the extend of it. Any costs to prove an item fake are on the buyer, and whether eBay accepts the results of the buyer's efforts is not guaranteed.
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Posted 06/28/2022   2:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello All,

I've been following this thread. Just a heads-up that a new batch of questionable US essays and trial color proofs were listed today on eBay by a different seller. I'm a long-time student of the large numeral CBNCo essays, hence my interest and concern.

Couldn't help but note the header description ("extremely rare") is verbatim with offerings by previous sellers supposedly based in Canada but actually based in Albania, no mention that they're fakes, and no information on specific details (catalog number, paper type, etc.).

Here is one listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/234602916468

Judging by the scans, these items are the most deceptive yet, giving the impression that they're printed on India paper and with a fineness of line not seen on other examples of similar fakes discussed above.
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Edited by essay_proof - 06/28/2022 10:02 pm
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