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10c Dwi Scott #10 Color Changeling?

 
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Posted 05/30/2022   12:36 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add ray.mac to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I won a nice lot of DWI in an auction recently, and there were a bunch of Scott #10's. I'm guessing that the one on the right is a color changeling, but any analyzer I've put it through showed no blue whatsoever.

All Scott references to this issue show only blue (Yvert as blue gray, which I think is more accurate) or dark blue (one is dark blue with black brown, 10a, on thin paper). I don't have a micrometer, but the stamp in the middle is thinner than the others.

Any experience with this one out there? And I'm sure that the one on the right is a #10, because as listed it's really the only choice, but does Michel have a different listing? Does the middle stamp have a chance as 10a?

Thanks much!
Ray

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Posted 05/30/2022   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tough telling color on this Danish West Indies stamp. I only have Scotts, and 10a (Dark Blue and Black Brown on Thin Paper), seems more likely than Scott 10 (Blue and Brown).

I do want to point out that the frame seems much more lightly printed than any others that I have seen.
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Posted 05/30/2022   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When you get into shades and different colors you need to get a specialised catalog . The major catalogs will most of the time list only the most common shade . Remember this stamp was issued over a period of years ,so different printings are at play here .
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Posted 05/30/2022   2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We all agree each collector decides how they want to collect and what they want in their collection . Most collectors are happy to just fill the spot in their albums . But other collectors will mount a different shade if the catalogs list them . Then there are those who ,like myself will include a shade that the catalogs have not listed .

My thinking is that someday ,I may get that specialised catalog or has been common these days is that one of the main catalogs will start to add a sub-number and list a new shade . Again it is up to each collector.
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Edited by floortrader - 05/30/2022 2:30 pm
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Posted 05/30/2022   2:39 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Floortrader, just found on a dealer's site, Northwind (specializes in Scandanavia) which lists this stamp as brown and grey, so I'm betting that in the Facit catalogue, there is a listing for this.

Looked also on Jay Smith's site but didn't see this shade.

eBay has a couple of older Facit's, so I might just get one.
I have a Yvert Classic, but you're absolutely right about the need for specialized catalogues. I've always heard that Michel has the most listings, and hope that they come out at some point with a World Classics, a la, Scott and Yvert.

Always a good thing to add to the library. Thanks for your thoughts, Ray
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Posted 05/30/2022   6:23 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Michel does a "classic" catalogue, I think, although it doesn't cover much of the middle-period material that other publishers include.
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Posted 05/30/2022   8:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Facit Special Classic 2022 lists 7 printings of this with different shades as below.

10a - dark chocolate brown/light ultramarine
10b - dark chocolate brown/dark steel blue
10c - black brown/dark ultramarine
10d - red brown/light grey ultramarine
10e - light brown/light pearl grey (the right one pictured?)
10f - black brown/greyblue
10g - red brown/grey blue

Can take a picture of the listing in Facit if you want more info. A top quality reference work - bilingual Swedish/English - for all the Scandinavian countries up to 1951, ordered it from Nordfrim I believe.

The Michel classic mentioned above goes up to 1900 - has 2 volumes, one for Europe and the other for Overseas. A great reference.

~Greg
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Edited by gmot - 05/30/2022 8:05 pm
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Posted 05/30/2022   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I second the Facit Special suggestion, the 2022 is an affordable great resource for Scandinavia.
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Posted 05/31/2022   12:05 am  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Appreciate everyone's help!
Thanks!
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Posted 05/31/2022   08:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sorsh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
when it comes to shades/colors on most stamps, it's usually a question of the eye of the beholder.

usually when an inexperienced collector is left to determine these with no insight a mysterious thing happens.... it's ALWAYS the most expensive shade.

when it comes to danish and danish west indies bicolored - everything can be divided into prints - which is the absolute only certain way of determining a shade/color.

and if you want to collect an area, always look for the country's own litterature and catalogues - the rest are at best lacking and more than often completely misguiding.

what you have here are, print 4, 3 and 5... in that order.

AFA - the Danish catalogue would refer to these as AFA 11, 11a and 11b...
Facit would be 10d, 10c and 10e

if you want a more detailed look into collecting bicolored, have a look at this thread.

http://goscf.com/t/52341&whichpage=1
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Posted 05/31/2022   09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"The rest are at best lacking and more often completely misguiding " ----- For most of us ,it depends how far down the rabbitt hole you want to go . But to many of us if we just mount them next to each other on a page is enough .

I would not call a collector completely misguided or lacking, you need to understand what their goals are ,as mentioned earlier some try just to fill a blank space which is fine ,some try to follow a catalog and add listed shades . Myself I would add each shade or variety on a page and then move on .

Call it misguided if you want ,but I have no interest in buying or having over 220 Specialized catalogs on my desk. That is not my goal as a worldwide collector ,it is to have a decent W.W. collection.
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Posted 05/31/2022   2:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sorsh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"The rest are at best lacking and more often completely misguiding " ----- For most of us ,it depends how far down the rabbitt hole you want to go . But to many of us if we just mount them next to each other on a page is enough .


sure, but the OP was asking for assistance on determining shades, and how people collect isn't an issue here - he refers to scott, and it's my experience, that when it comes down to just inside the so called rabbit hole, the catalogue from the country in question is the way to go... and I can't imagine you don't agree to that.

but since you brought it up - for a collection that you refer to, a specialized catalogue isn't needed - but it seems to me you could live without a catalogue all together if you just want to mount stuff next to each other :)


Quote:
I would not call a collector completely misguided or lacking


nor should you, and neither did i.. I called general catalogues misguiding when it comes down to the so called rabbit hole collection, again in reference to the OP's question regarding determining shades.

another good example is that scott apparently refers to paper thickness, but that varies in each print since paper production at this time wasn't completely accurate, and there's even examples of very fine, thin paper and "cardboard" thickness (which it isn't, just a term) - so if you go by that you end up placing things wrong.

i'm sure that's fine for most - but then again, no need for a catalogue, you can just willy nilly it as you feel is right.

but again, it was my interpretation that OP wanted the correct answer since he's gone to lengths of determining it himself - paper measuring and color analyzers.


Quote:
as mentioned earlier some try just to fill a blank space which is fine


yes of course - but you brought this up, not the OP. He's obviously more serious and I've shared my knowledge to answer his dilemma to the best of my ability.


Quote:
Call it misguided if you want ,but I have no interest in buying or having over 220 Specialized catalogs on my desk. That is not my goal as a worldwide collector ,it is to have a decent W.W. collection.


again - this has nothing to do with the topic... let's focus on helping him with the problem at hand?
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