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Kelleher Collections Auction 24-25 June 2022

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Valued Member
Canada
116 Posts
Posted 06/13/2022   10:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Brad905 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have to agree with you Floor Trader. I know things went a little crazy with prices and demand during the pandemic. I know a lot of dealers ploughed all of that money back into new stock. But with global inflation, now buyer's budgets are reduced and I think prices will start dropping.

I was at the CAPEX 2022 show last week. I love the last 2-3 hours of a show, where the dealers and auction houses run around cannibalizing each other, especially the poor guys who have to fly back home with their unsold stock and do not want to pay the extra fees for cargo or extra bags. Just sitting at some dealer tables at the end of yesterday, they were giving discounts to each other of between 40%-60%.

Anyway, I looked at the Kelleher offerings for Canada. Ridiculously overestimated!
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Edited by Brad905 - 06/13/2022 10:51 am
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United States
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Posted 06/23/2022   3:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let's also remember that we are getting into summer right now - traditionally, the slow season in philately. Dealers/auction houses selling lots of stuff in a (lagged) response to a spike in stamp prices, but collectors wanting to get out in the sun and play with their 'outside' toys for the next few months. Larger supply (as evidenced by the large # of auctions right now) and marginally lower demand = lower prices. Unless we let it get into our heads, and let it affect our behavior, it is just seasonal.

I was looking through the Kelleher collections in some detail and it struck me (this has struck me many times in the past with Kelleher) that many of these 'high end' collections have many, many individual lots in them. $ value Trans-Miss, etc, with clean certs, early US with clean certs, etc, etc, etc. Sure, some may have been damaged in the years since the certs were issued, but certainly not too many. Here's my point: If I were a consignor/heir, I would be infinitely TICKED OFF if my (or my loved one's) hard-to-be-assembled life-long passionate pursuit was blown out the door in one fell swoop. All my hard work (and $1,000's) blown out as 'Lot 666'. Perhaps some of the consignors requested their collections be sold intact, but that is an unwise choice, given what these collections look like. I am talking about the general USA collections, not anything specialized. If I spent $500+ on individual stamps from dealers like Century Stamps or the Rupp Brothers, I would expect them to be sold in a similar fashion.

Of course, YMMV.
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 06/23/2022 3:50 pm
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Posted 06/23/2022   8:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
MOOT --- It is in the interest of the stamp auction house to get the best possible price . The auction house knows how to package their lots both for best price and fast sale . They already know there needs to be better stamps in the larger lots ,so the don't get returns .

I believe those firms that over pick those better stamps from larger collections and large lots over time they get less and less for purchases from their buyers . Buyer will move on .
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Edited by floortrader - 06/23/2022 8:49 pm
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Posted 06/24/2022   01:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floor - I understand what you re saying, but why is Kelleher about the only auction house to leave sound $ value Trans-Miss and Columbians in the collections? The bottom line for me is: When it is time to liquidate my collection, I will NOT take it to Kelleher. I've considered this for a number of years now, and I always come to the same conclusion. DFK is a big player, but they do not fit my expectations for how they will lot up a collection. My 'collection' isn't even in an album - it is a collection of individually-bought $100-$2000 stamps bought mostly at the auction houses that get press-time here at SCF, that are kept individually in stock cards. Basically, my collection is a 'block' of cards with stamps in them, and each is individually described (usually just grabbing the lot description from the place where I purchased it) for convenience. It is compact and valuable - I would jump off a bridge if it were to end up as Lot 666 and be described as a shoe-box full of many premium stamps.

I have worked for a number of auction houses and I have been soundly admonished for leaving even a small-faults $5 Columbian in a collection, let alone a sound one with a cert. I was working for my boss who, you can believe, had the best interest of the company in mind - bigger-picture stuff than just keeping this particular consignor happy. There were enough consignors that requested that their collections be sold intact to keep a few 'premium' collections in our catalogs. But that amounted to just a handful per year. As far as house-owned collections were concerned, my bosses wanted them broken down even further than the typical consigned collection - that was where we got the premium $50 stamps to grace our catalogs.

Of course, some specialized collections may do better as one single lot, but that type of collection is not what I am referring to in my rant. If a general USA collector wants his collection sold intact, that is his business no matter how foolish it may be. As to whether it will be broken down properly, or not, can be seen in the years worth of auctions put out by the various auction houses. My point being: choose the company that has a record of listing your collection as you want it to be done.

I will ASSUME the consignors of the various premium collections in the Kelleher sale are thrilled by the current presentation. To each his own. I know I wouldn't be. As I said before - YMMV.
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 06/24/2022 01:45 am
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Posted 06/24/2022   07:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those collections are sold this way so that the dealers can have lots to fight over. If the material is really that good then they will sell high anyway.
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Posted 06/24/2022   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
and would add two more possibilities.

The consignors or their heirs don't want to add the additional time to require fresh certs.

The certs are over 30 years old and while being "clean" certs would likely not be "clean" if the stamps were resubmitted. Of course, who is the House to note a reperf or other issue if they have a "clean" cert to dangle.

The very first US collection in this DFK sale raises some questions. It is obvious that a number of singles HAVE been removed from their mounts but other seemingly valuable stamps are left in-situ. Why? I don't believe much in happenstance.
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Posted 06/24/2022   11:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Moot ---- I live in a different world than you . I can't remark on U.S. stamps and how the auction firms decide to market and sell them ,I just don't follow the auction houses activity in U.S. material .

I do watch Worldwide section of the auction houses and have a better understanding there with 48 years of auction buying and selling . experience .
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Posted 06/24/2022   11:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What interest me right now is how these bigger worldwide massive collections are selling . Those many volume sets ,which collectors spend a life time putting together ,Kelleher has two of them up this weekend .

Interesting note ,they are starting them high ,so I want to see how the bidding goes on them . They also have a few lots of red boxes and also want to see how they go in the bidding .
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Posted 06/24/2022   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a little side note here --------- The firm H.R. Harmers which has been having a stamp auction the past few days posted online the following -----"Due to tremendous participation we have extended our sale one day "
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Posted 06/24/2022   4:25 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kelleher estimate ranges for the big US collection lots were very accurate for the most part, A few missed by just a bit, some went a bit above. But overall they were quite good this time.
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United States
233 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   6:03 pm  Show Profile Check jamesg's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bidding seems awfully strong to me. Only bid on 2, one of which went for double estimate and the other went for quadruple the estimate.
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Posted 06/24/2022   6:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tomorrow will be a interesting day if this activity carries over to the country collections and then to the bulk lots .
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Posted 06/24/2022   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anyway, I looked at the Kelleher offerings for Canada. Ridiculously overestimated!


Brad905, could you report on the final prices for those Canada Lots? Sold at 25% estimate, 50% estimate, 100% estimate, 200% estimate or what ever would be helpful.

I ask you for two reasons:

1st, I am not following the sale.
2nd, The last handful of threads on collection.large lot auction are complaining about the high prices at which they sell, far beyond estimate.
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Posted 06/24/2022   10:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Canadian estimates do not seem out of line. When CV is stated, the low estimate with commission is about 15 percent of CV with two lots approaching 20 percent. The openings are half of low estimate. Hardly seems outrageous.
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Posted 06/25/2022   08:04 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All depends on condition. If there is a lot of CV in classics in typical condition, 15% would be a bad price.
If it were GB with a lot of CV in classics in typical condition, 15% would get you laughed out of the room.
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