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Penny Red Big Collection For Study

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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   3:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good afternoon Wilding mad yes I know many of what you say and I know about Great Britain philatelic societies library and I got all the material they offer but for sure I got benefit from some points you say as the inverted water mark as I forget to check for ,indeed all the water mark I checked is small crown in right orientation , but I asked that there is difference between theoretical knowledge and practical application for information so you can see am asked for some points confused me although I got the information and am not sure that what I checked for cancellations is right may be some mistakes to learn from for that I post the items to know and then the item will be documented on the blog for others to learn.
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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   3:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Important correction I wrote the water mark is small crown the right is it is scott 20 which large crown , so this correction I write till I change the photos afterfinish what I do.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
337 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   4:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wilding mad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes mottaz, that is correct large crown Perf 14.

A !ot can be learned through the study of postmarks, and in some cases a fine used copy can be worth more than a mint version with some countries.

The ones that you have got, are the last in the series of the line engraved stamps with letters in all 4 corners and for plating purposes are relatively simple to identify.

The earlier imperforated and perforated 1d stars are much more complicated having different perforations, different alphabets, different dies, and of course the large and small crown watermark.

Due to there being so many different numbers and varying counties I would suggest that you download each individual county and just take a screenshot of the index, deleting the rest, similar to this Lancashire one as an example, then if you have a printer make a hard copy of each county thus saving memory on your device.

It's completely up to you!

But by doing that you will have easy reference :-
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Pillar Of The Community
2606 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   5:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Mottaz,

The first two postmarks you've shown are London Inland Office cancellations.

The third cancellation is unknown to me.

The D21 postmark is from Richmond, Surrey.

Hope this info helps!
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762 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Apologies in advance for the shadows in the pictures. I cant get these to the scanner and I have terrible lighting here. Here are some inland cancels to look at. As mentioned, the GBPS site is a great resource. Here are some pages I have...







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762 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think document no. 12 - inland cancellations from the gbps site:

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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   7:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
THANKS all of you for help
@Wilding mad ,Bobby De La Rue ,Stamps4Life I will peply later in details for each reply from every one to make some points clear and after a day I will add more stamps after I finished them, see you all soon.
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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   9:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Wilding mad thanks dear for your help but I got a question I think I know its answer but to make clear did the number of a post office in a county is unique that is to say it cant be confused with another post office in another county.
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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Bobby De La Rue , thanks dear for your help I wish someone can give a hint about this cancelation you said you know nothing about as the unknown things is a gift thats make this hobby enjoiable .
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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   9:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Stamps4Life thanks for your great help, no need to apologize the photos is great and quality is very good I asked for 3 reasons the first I think that I read that sub offices also use cancellation a number inside a diamond I didnt remember where I read that , the seconed the photos in catalogs sometimes show the number is along the long axis of the diamond while I see stamps the number is perpendicular to that axis so I asked is this make a difference, the third and last one is this photo


you see that for branch office and inland section its common tthat the number in a circle while the difference I think in the form of the cancellation so I said it may be also its common to use number in diamond for both cancellation types.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
337 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   03:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wilding mad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good morning mottaz,
From 1844 each postal district was allocated its own unique cancellation number, but I have noticed on the Lancashire list that some confusion may have occurred in some areas that overlapped.
Example:
Between Bacup G07,117 and Rawtenstall 501,642 are Stacksteads K05 : Newchurch C75 : Waterfoot D34,837 and Cloughfold J87 that are all in the Rossendale Valley.

Yet there was a cancellation number for Rossendale 605 that included the other areas already specified, and must have been somewhat confusing in some cases.

However the system worked for around 60 years so it must have been an adequate solution overall. WM
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
337 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   05:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wilding mad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In response to your postings reference this cancellation. >

Bobby De La Rue

Quote:
The third cancellation is unknown to me.

Mottaz

Quote:
@Bobby De La Rue , thanks dear for your help I wish someone can give a hint about this cancelation you said you know nothing about as the unknown things is a gift thats make this hobby enjoiable .


Under the circumstances I decided to contact a friend by the name of Howard Hughes who has much knowledge relating to British Victorian cancellations.

This was his reply :-
"It is a dumb cancel. These were sometimes made of wood or cork and were used whilst awaiting a new obliterator or on newspapers.
Not attributed to any particular town."

So, another question solved!!! WM
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Valued Member
Egypt
144 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   07:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mottaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good morning Wilding mad
Thanks for reply with useful info , I will add new papers for cancellations and penny red star when I finish them, wishing have something to add new knowledge , as for the stamp you answered for unknown cancellation I wish I got a time to begin a new topic and add to it regularly classic stamps of different categories from world wide .
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
337 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wilding mad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No doubt you are well aware that many millions of these stamps was issued and used in Victorian times during the industrial revolution, at that time it was a cheap means of communication, as there was no Hi-Tec in those days such as the telephone or emails, the only other alternative was the telegraph system which was very expensive to use for the working man.

Out of all the plates that was used to print these stamps only two are quite expensive to obtain, you might possibly be able to afford a fine used copy of plate 225 at a cost of around 230 but plate 77 is virtually unobtainable and would cost you many thousands of pounds to purchase.

Therefore obtaining all the plates that was used to complete a set is nigh impossible, nevertheless, studying these stamps gives you a sense of philatelic history that covers a period of civil and native unrest, both in South Africa (Zulu and Boer war period).

Penny reds on cover are much sought after that relate to these areas of conflict.

Carry on studying mottaz you never know what you might discover. WM.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
7156 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   09:21 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Boer War was long after the 1d red period, though.
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