Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Counterfeit Stamps Pass Postal Scrutiny

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 93 / Views: 4,690Next Topic
Page: of 7
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3100 Posts
Posted 06/20/2022   7:48 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"As far as I know, it uses the tagging for orientation purposes."

That is part of the purpose. The other part is if no tagging is detected, the piece is supposed to be kicked out for inspection.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9082 Posts
Posted 06/20/2022   7:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If we are being honest, we will acknowledge that LE could in theory go around playing whack-a-mole with the thousands of sellers of these fake Forever stamps but that will not abate the problem. As with illegal drugs you really need to crush the source and in this case the source is China which is immune from penalties for the time being. There are no costs imposed on them for bad behavior. In fact, we increase our trade deficit with them because we now NEED them for all of our essential goods. Heck, if they are in the Fentanyl business which is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans do you really think they give a hoot about being called out for faking postage stamps? A big fat NO.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
10995 Posts
Posted 06/20/2022   7:53 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...The other part is if no tagging is detected, the piece is supposed to be kicked out for inspection.


So when we use older, non-tagged postage all those pieces are kicked out for inspection?
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1513 Posts
Posted 06/20/2022   11:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
all those pieces are kicked out for inspection?


At one time at the Oakland, CA Bulk Mail Facility there was one or two folks whose job it was to check the stamps on the covers kicked out of the facing/cancelers. They knew US stamps quite well and could tell at a glance if the postage was valid. Several years later they had both retired and mail with the older stamps were delayed a day or two (or more) as they we being checked out my new folks. Eventually the delays disappeared. In all of the cases, the stamps were usually canceled.

Now I see much older materiel on covers passing through uncancelled. As I have lost regular touch with the Oakland BMC, I can not ask what has changed. However when mailing my envelopes I see that my little local PO's window clerk (PM or OIC in this small office) hand cancels the older stuff so it will pass through the mail stream without issue.



Quote:
I've purchased from 7 different dealers who have sent me untagged forever stamps.


The Postal Inspection Service says to NOT buy discounted modern postage (any 'Forever' stamps) as that which is sold at discount, especially deep discounts, is either counterfeit or stolen legitimate stamps. Some "sellers" indicate they are just selling off the postage from their bankrupt small business. Now if you check the quantities they are selling no small business has that many rolls on hand day to day as using a meter would be quicker as well as saving a few cents per mailing.

Now my question to you serf_tide, what percentage of face did you pay, or was it 100%? When the $58.00 rolls are being sold on eBay for $45, $34, $27.95, $19.47 if purchasing 3 or more, or 5 @ $9.97 each you should not expect valid USPS issue material.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/20/2022 11:48 pm
Valued Member
220 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   10:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Perf10 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would expect a few high profile prosecutions of US sellers of counterrfeits to put a damper on the party, or at least drive up the price so that counterfeits become less attractive.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
510 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   2:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cephus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would expect a few high profile prosecutions of US sellers of counterrfeits to put a damper on the party, or at least drive up the price so that counterfeits become less attractive.


How are they going to do that when all of the counterfeiting is being done in China, by the government? About all they could do was refuse to process fraudulent postage, but that probably costs them more money than just letting it go through. I'm sure that's why most postal clerks, when they're going through mail that got ejected from the line for not being tagged, just let it go anyhow if it looks at all close to a real stamp. It's not worth the added expense and bad publicity when some 85-year old grandmother loses her house because her mortgage check didn't go through.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9082 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   3:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You have to prosecute far up the food chain because you need to prove that the bodega owner knew 100% that they were selling fakes. They no doubt do but proving it is another thing. You need to tie a shipment to someone through perhaps a controlled delivery. Even then China could care less and as with drugs will just keep shipping to a large and willing client base. This needs to be solved diplomatically but that will not happen for another few years if at all.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
220 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   5:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Perf10 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Assuming USPS regs support it, they could chase the largest sellers on the largest sales venues. At min, I'd think USPS could get eBay, etsy, etc. to shut down the sellers of fakes. No, you won't stop them all, but that should reduce those sales.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
80 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   5:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My initial foray into this was, exactly as you described, purchasing below face. I guess my head was in the grass, but I asked the seller, "are these legit" and they said "yes". I'm sure everyone gets a chuckle out of that, but that puts a stamp on eBay that the seller has told me that they are legit, if I find out that they aren't and there is a dispute, I have some leverage. My most recent purchase was from a widely respected dealer who sells on both hipstamp and eBay. I paid 40% over face for 15 sheets of Message Monster (Scott #5639a) and 14 were untagged. 1 was good. I've had several others that I've returned that were 5% above face. After getting burned with the first one, I don't buy any forever stamps below face. Live and Learn.

I'm checking every single forever stamp that I get in, without exception and putting on my sale line "tagging verified". Last night, I sent my messages to Tim Kaine & Mark Warner. I need to see if any Virginia congressmen are on the House subcommittee as well.

I agree with perf10, USPS can pressure the obvious channels to create a selling mechanism that limits their sale or at a minimum go after ones that have been identified.

Kevin
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9082 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   6:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At min, I'd think USPS could get eBay, etsy, etc. to shut down the sellers of fakes.


There is no way that that will happen. eBay will not become law enforcement and trey and ferret out which sellers are selling fakes and which are not. This has been going on for years. LE has to go after the sellers but as I have said repeatedly they would be playing whack-a-mole.

Look at all of the shenanigans that take place on eBay. eBay's position is that they are a Chapter 230 protected platform and have no responsibility for individual listings.

The USPS SHOULD be as aggressive as Disney in policing their intellectual property. That dog might hunt mor easily and successfully.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3100 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   10:51 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"So when we use older, non-tagged postage all those pieces are kicked out for inspection?"

Yes, if all the stamps are untagged.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
80 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   10:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eBay just completed a transformation on their computer and electronic reselling, ending the term "Seller Refurbished". Sellers can only offer "Certified Refurbished". Big outcry by resellers because they now must use the term "Used" unless it is manufacturer certified. This was in response to Dell, HP & Lenovo strengthening their ties to eBay to resell their refurbished products and create a clear distinction. eBay will police it if they feel they need to.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1039 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   11:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I used to buy the greatly discounted forever flag coils on eBay. Then I read that they are most likely counterfeit, so no more. Now I buy gummed commems, and I prefer the pre-forever type. Sure, I have to add up to get to the first class rate, but so what. My brain ain't dead yet. And, yes, I am paying face-ish, by the time you add in the P&H and the WA State sales tax that eBay automatically adds (10.1% for where I live). You CAN continue to ride the illegal gravy train. I choose not to. It probably amount to $2 per month. Woopdy-do!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
220 Posts
Posted 06/22/2022   10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Perf10 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eBay already shuts down auctions of other fakes, such as coins, so then can do similar for fake Forever stamps. Who ships much, perhaps most, of what's sold on eBay and similar venues? USPS. IMO that gives them more than enough leverage to convince the large online venues to cooperate.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9082 Posts
Posted 06/22/2022   11:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So how is eBay to determine which accounts to shut down?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 7 Previous TopicReplies: 93 / Views: 4,690Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2022 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.24 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05