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85B & 86 Posted Due To Relatively Clear Grill Illustrations To Compare Z & E Grills

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Posted 06/23/2022   02:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Perhaps this is clear enough so that those who can describe the attributes of a Z-Grill, can do so with this image. I looked at some other Z-Grill threads (no, not all) and did not see a clear Z-Grill, great explanations however.


Back:



Front:


This is about the Z-Grill, no need to berate the stamp's condition just to do so. Now if you have a better one, by all means post it with a nice clear grill photo.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/23/2022 10:52 pm

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Posted 06/23/2022   02:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison, here is a clear E-grill (86):

Back


Front


Again this is about the grill, not the condition of the stamp. If yours is better post a clear photo of the grill.
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Posted 06/23/2022   02:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lastly, for those hoping they found an 85A, the very rare Z-grill of which two are recorded as owned outside of the US Government, the Z-Grill is a double grill meaning, not one but, two impressions of the grill is on the stamp.

[Edit: I will edit this post later, but within 23 hours. Until then have fun.]

I had the cert images but just wanted to wait a bit before posting them.


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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/23/2022 10:05 pm
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Posted 06/23/2022   09:26 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. Looks like a typical Z grill. 12 or 13 columns of horizontal ridges and half columns on the ends with vertical ridges.
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Posted 06/23/2022   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good to me too.
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Posted 06/23/2022   7:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jleb1979 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have one (an 85B) which shows the Z grill fairly well. I do not say better or clearer than the Z grill shown by ParcelPost, but multiple examples may be helpful I think in such an exercise.

Back:


Front (which really doesn't show much):
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Posted 06/23/2022   7:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
85B is a stamp which is fairly scarce used, scarcer still unused, and rare mint OG.
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Posted 06/23/2022   10:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I added the certificates for my images above in the post where I said I would do an edit within 23 hours. The certs are recent, from last month, and I do not know if either has a "cert history."

Now I trust everyone who has replied here so far knows this, but I wanted to explain to those who are still learning, the E-grill ridging runs up and down (or if you prefer, north and south) while the Z-grill has the ridges running left and right (or if you prefer, east and west). Now if you did not see that difference in orientation go back and look. For further help see the linked article.

Siegel Auction Gallery wrote and has posted a good explanation of grills, especially the Z-grill, here: https://siegelauctions.com/enc/pdf/1868Z.pdf

And lastly thanks for your illustration jleb1979; more good illustrations are a better teaching tool. If I still hand my color 85A photos, I would have posted them to show the double grill. They were used for the front page article (Linn's or Stamp Collector) I wrote about the stamp prior to when the Jerry Buss collection was being sold in 1986 by Superior Stamp and Coin Co. of Beverly Hills, CA.

If one is in the market and can handle the quality, or lack thereof, both can be found currently listed on eBay. They are not mine nor am I trying to advertise for the seller. As I stated in my OP, they are shown here due to the quality of the pictured grills.
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Posted 06/24/2022   12:42 am  Show Profile Check jamesg's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the image below, I cannot discern either a vertical or horizontal ridge as you describe. Do you see one and if so, how do you differentiate what you're seeing?



This is a 2ct Lincoln. Is it a 93?

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Posted 06/24/2022   02:40 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Image from Stamp Smarter "Easy Identification 1867- 1868 Grills" article
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/I...8Grills.html
Don
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Posted 06/24/2022   03:11 am  Show Profile Check jamesg's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It must be my eyesight because I can barely see the grill and count the points usually, let alone tell if they're points up or down or see these vertical or horizontal ridges you speak of.
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Posted 06/24/2022   07:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That Lincoln looks like an F grill.
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Posted 06/24/2022   12:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It must be my eyesight because I can barely see the grill and count the points usually, let alone tell if they're points up or down or see these vertical or horizontal ridges you speak of.


It is not your eyesight (I think) but the fact not all grills are impressed into the paper equally. Bold grills are easy, less bold grill are crazy-making. That is one reason grills have been so "interesting" for the last 150+ years.

First trick is to use a strong light source from an oblique (angle, not directly over head) side direction. That helps highlight what is there. Add a good handheld magnifier and look for a grill point which reveals orientation. All you really need to find are two, the first to show orientation and the second to verify the first found.

Good luck and if totally frustrated, one can turn the issue over to others and get a certificate.
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Posted 06/24/2022   3:58 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is one of those stamps that I have more than most probably just because they came in high numbers in my "Bill" lots. Only half of what I have is up for sale. But I always include a good image showing the grill clearly on the back. Feel free to look at those for comparison. Only one has a cert, but the grills are quite clear.
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Posted 06/29/2022   4:10 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 85b with blue checkerboard cancel is a #73 with a faked Z-grill.
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Posted 06/29/2022   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Do you mean this one sinclair2010?





If so, can you point out the clues you see or know, perhaps from previous examination by you? thanks, that will improve this thread.
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