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This Cannot Be Legit?

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Posted 06/28/2022   05:39 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion the CCP did not sit around scheming and planning to try to disrupt the US by flooding counterfeit stamps into the marketplace. More likely this is just another example of a very different business culture which often does not recognize the copyright and IP practices of the West. Chinese businesses have a long history of 'copying' things and believing that this practice serves the greater good.

That said, I have no doubt that the CCP understands the negative impact and is just fine with the consequences of these business actions. No company in China can break wind without the CCP knowing, and ultimately controlling, the behaviors of the companies within their borders whether it be a printing company or a virology lab. They might not proactively plan for a negative Western impact but they certainly have no problem with allowing it to continue or even flourish.

Ultimately does it matter if the CCP planned for and intended a negative US impact of a Chinese company behavior? Not really. When someone screws you over their intention is not that important, the damage is done and you are holding the short end of the stick. The real issue is what happens once the issue is well understood, is the CCP going to prevent this from continuing?

In a 2017 seven-month NBR investigation report, it was published that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually." See here for more information and updates to this issue https://www.nbr.org/program/commiss...al-property/

The only way to prevent this issue is for retaliatory sanctions but 'playing chicken' with trade can be a double edge sword and is not for the weak of heart. Even more problematic is the fact that the CCP leadership practices a strategy they call "elite capture". This strategy drives 'capturing' Western businesses, politicians, and academics with sweetheart deals and benefits. But support of this strategy does not just come from the businesses, politicians, and academics elites; each of our own houses are full of Chinese made goods and perhaps even counterfeit stamps. If this is the case, then we are lying in the bed that we made.
Don
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Posted 06/28/2022   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Morning Don and all,

Well said, Don. As soon as greed in cultures on both sides of the Pacific is eliminated we may see better days.
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Posted 06/28/2022   9:41 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stealing IP hurts the company that it is stolen from, but benefits the consumer (lower cost). Counterfeiting goods is a problem for both the company copied and the consumer (lower quality). When it comes to counterfeiting another countries stamps, the Chinese consumer does not come into play at all as they are strictly marked to the other country. It is not paying homage to Gucci, or giving their people a cheaper look-alike, it is pure staeling that benefits only the counterfeiter.
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United States
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Posted 06/28/2022   9:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add joe1225us to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Stealing IP hurts the company that it is stolen from, but benefits the consumer (lower cost). Counterfeiting goods is a problem for both the company copied and the consumer (lower quality). When it comes to counterfeiting another countries stamps, the Chinese consumer does not come into play at all as they are strictly marked to the other country. It is not paying homage to Gucci, or giving their people a cheaper look-alike, it is pure stealing that benefits only the counterfeiter.


Little off topic, but not necessarily. My brother who flies to China once a month or so says that many of the counterfeit items are made by the same company who is (contracted) to make it for the genuine company. While making product XX for say Puma, make 10,000 extra, which they sell on the side.

In addition, I was on the board of a technology company. We had a deal with the Chine as Transportation Ministry. Our lawyers in China warned us that we should make sure to keep a portion of the intellectual property away from the Transportation Ministry, as they would UNDOUBTEDLY try to replicate it and then chuck us.
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Posted 06/28/2022   11:04 pm  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If counterfeit stamps is an issue why does the gov not want watermarks. Security features build into the stamps to deter. They have done it before. They have had currency to practice on in recent times. Why not?
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Posted 06/29/2022   01:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
KGV - on the surface this is a fair question to be asked. The reality is, I think, that the USPS simply doesn't have the time to inspect stamps on envelopes for their genuineness. For years, a fairly simple way to differentiate a counterfeit US stamp was to look for tagging. Very simple - genuine modern stamps glow under UV light, while the counterfeits did not. Probably simpler than to look for watermarks or some of the security features that are on our paper money. Yet, the problem persisted and most of the counterfeits made it through. Years ago, I bought a roll of stamps, waaaaay under face value, on eBay and used them on my mail. I saved one for the collection. At some point I heard on SCF that most of the cheap postage being sold on eBay are Chinese counterfeits so I checked to make sure the one I saved was legit. It wasn't, according to Scott. I believe 100% of the letters (mostly bills being paid) made it to their destination. If one didn't then I would have been delinquent on some bill, most likely, but I never had a problem with payments getting through.

I now buy old commems (again, on eBay, due to simplicity) that I ASSUME are legit. I assume this because they use decades-old postage rates and are, generally, lick-n-stick. I doubt any counterfeiter is going to make such stamps - they are making loads of current rate (ie: Forever Stamps) with peel-n-stick adhesives. I like the lower face-value commems because it lets me put multiple stamps on an envelope to make up the current rate.

The USPS is being robbed right under their noses, they know it, yet they do not have the resources to do anything about it.
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Posted 06/29/2022   03:36 am  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing! They can make a machine to read an address and send it to the right place to be delivered but they can not make a machine that can tell a forged stamp or not.
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Posted 06/29/2022   03:48 am  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe a lazy 100 million in a fake stamp machine attachment.
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Posted 06/29/2022   05:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, they do develop such machines. Fluorescence, phosphorescence, security iridescent overprints, security perforations are all attempts to make it possible to recognise forgeries. But forgers time and again are able to come up with ideas to circumvent that issue. So, now we have the unique QR-code. Once scanned, any further stamp with that QR-code will be recognised as a forgery.

No more forgeries!

... until some clever guy comes up with a way to circumvent the issue.

Kids in school learn things that would have made you a witch a couple hundred years ago. If I child can understand it, why couldn't wise men at that time?
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Posted 06/29/2022   08:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add joe1225us to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The USPS is being robbed right under their noses, they know it, yet they do not have the resources to do anything about it.


Don't have the resources, or don't care? How much effort and resources would it take to order stamps from the most blatant internet sellers, and then, upon proving they are forged, arrest them? Like a simple everyday drug bust?
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Posted 06/29/2022   11:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
upon proving they are forged, arrest them?


Arrest who? The seller? Have to prove seller knew they were forged just for selling them, still need the nab the forger.
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Posted 06/29/2022   2:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add joe1225us to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Arrest who? The seller? Have to prove seller knew they were forged just for selling them, still need the nab the forger.


As the Sellers are selling huge quantities, they are either the forgers or willfully blind to the fact that they are forged. Which is enough to arrest.
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Posted 06/29/2022   8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cephus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As the Sellers are selling huge quantities, they are either the forgers or willfully blind to the fact that they are forged. Which is enough to arrest.


The actual forgers are in China and thus, beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement. There's no end to suckers who will take a chance at a profit.
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Posted 06/29/2022   8:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add joe1225us to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The actual forgers are in China and thus, beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement. There's no end to suckers who will take a chance at a profit


The forgers may be out of reach. But the resellers aren't! Arrest a few of them and it will make it much harder for the forgers to sell their forgerys. Also MIGHT make eBay kick them off.
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Posted 06/29/2022   8:15 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"How much effort and resources would it take to order stamps from the most blatant internet sellers, and then, upon proving they are forged, arrest them? Like a simple everyday drug bust?"

The cost of drug addiction and overdoses is very high. The cost of counterfeit stamps, not so much. So far, the Postal Inspectors have mostly decided the cost of making a case and then prosecuting the case is not worth it. And their agents may already be busy working postal fraud cases.

"Have to prove seller knew they were forged just for selling them, still need the nab the forger."

Certainly nabbing the forger would be best, but what seller who buys US postage from China at a massive discount does not know they are counterfet.? Of course proving they bought them from China is the hard part.

As for eBay, they once NARU'd one guy for returning counterfeits too many times.
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