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US #10 Vs #11 Color Comparison?

 
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Posted 06/28/2022   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add canyoneer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Does anyone have a side by side scan/image of #10 & #11 to show relative color difference? Orange Brown vs. Dull Red? I know computers show colors differently but thought a side by side would help me get it straight in my mind. I see these for sale in auctions and at stamp shows but suspect a lot of #11's are represented as #10's. Thanks!
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Posted 06/28/2022   11:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 06/28/2022   2:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Capthickey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The right-hand stamp is #10A (orange brown) and the left-hand one is #11A (dull red). If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected! Want to make sure I have my inventory correct.


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Posted 06/28/2022   2:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A resource, which is frequently frowned upon in this forum, is the Encyclopedia of the Colors of United States Postage Stamps by RH White, published in 1981. The main problem is that color pictures tend to fade over time, and 1981 was a long time ago. However, for your use, here is a scan (taken at one time) of two different color plates showing some color variations. I keep my books in a dark, temperature and humidity controlled location to improve their life. Good luck telling the difference on your monitor, as it will be different from mine.
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Posted 06/28/2022   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still a novice with the 1851 3c but I'm pretty sure the only definitive way to determine a 10 from 11 is to plate it. If you post a version with decent resolution you can usually get an answer pretty quickly.

Harper1249
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Posted 06/28/2022   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Harper is pretty much correct on this assessment - if you are not sure, PLATE IT! Having said that, plating is a task that many find to be tedious and time consuming (NOT me, though!). That, and not all stamps can be decisively plated - many plate positions are profoundly similar, and some stamps don't show the detail needed to plate them properly. There is a 'rainbow' of shades from plum to yellowish or pinkish. There are very few hard and fast lines between different listed shades. Give me two stamps of two shades and I can most likely find another stamp between those shades. Some shades are CLEARLY the 11/11A and some other shades are CLEARLY a #10/10A. To me, something like a deep orange brown (or something close to it) is clearly a 10/10A - it is so far away from being an 11/11A that you almost can't make a mistake.

Did you know that there is an orange brown shade of the #11/11A? There was a period of time when the printers were experimenting with orange brown ink later in the life of the issue - plating proves they are 11/11A's, but the color matches pretty closely the 10/10A and has been named "Experimental Orange Brown" to differentiate it from the original OB. The deeper you get, the more confusing the whole color issue becomes. BTW, if you DO have an Experimental OB, they are highly prized by specialists and are somewhat valuable - valuable as compared to a regular #11/11A.

Then there are those that try to accurately determine the shade, and knowing when that shade was used, dating the stamp, which would tell you whether it is a 10 or 11. That has always seemed backwards to me, but some have done so. You can dive into this particular field of philately as deeply as you care to. Many people want to be sure they have both a 10/10A and an 11/11A (or all 4 if that's how the album is set up) in their album, and then it's time to move on to other empty spaces. Some people morph into a specialist in the field and never leave. Both endeavors can be hard.

There is yet another method to use to determine whether it is a 10 or 11 that I use. It is not 100% dependable, at all, but it is better than nothing. I've seen enough of this issue and I've learned that a stamp with a sharp impression is likely a 10/10A and one with a muddled impression is likely an 11/11A. If the color isn't a sure thing, and you can't plate it, then going by the impression is better than 50/50. I guess I would call it a 60/40 thing ---- I don't mind being right 60% of the time when I would only be 50% right otherwise. The hard part is convincing anyone else that it is what you think it is!
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 06/28/2022 6:51 pm
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Posted 06/28/2022   11:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I may have been kidding myself that it might be as obvious as 219D Lake vs 220 Carmine. I've had the #10 space filled for years with what is probably an oddball color changeling ... it definitely looks different that my #11!


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Posted 06/29/2022   08:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GMC89 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with all the comments posted. If you are a small time stamp collector such as I, an option is to buy from a known plater or expert in these issues. Recently I purchased (with daughters assistance) a pair of 11A from CJ Dicomo. He has been mentioned on this site as an expert who also has been helpful with other experts on this site in plating. Bought off eBay at his site. Transaction was easy, and satisfying. I strongly recommend for those who want to be sure of what goes in their album.
Cheers, mark
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Posted 06/29/2022   11:17 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another side by side color chart that someone posted here some time ago that I've found useful:

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Posted 06/29/2022   12:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Canyoneer, I feel very confident that your left stamp is position 55 from the left pane of plate 1L or 55L1L. This would make it an 11A. I would need a higher resolution image to say with certainty. As for the color, I would say that it is heavily sulphurized which gives it the deep purple color. The upper left appears slightly less affected.

Edit: Chase identifies this position as having a double/shifted transfer. I'm not very good at finding most them (they can be subtle) but I suspect it is around the left side of the oval. Perhaps someone has a clear example that would show it better. Chase, Lund and SSD are unclear.

Regards,
Harper1249
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Edited by Harper1249 - 06/29/2022 12:47 pm
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Posted 06/29/2022   12:38 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Capthickey, you are absolutely correct so long as you are confused about which is your right and which is your left.
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Posted 06/29/2022   1:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Capthickey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sinclair2010, lol! You're are absolutely correct! Well, I am left-handed. Maybe that explains my confusion.
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Posted 06/29/2022   3:04 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Speak for yourself. I'm left-handed too
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