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Help To Identify This 12c 1861 Issue On Semi-Transparent Paper With Gum

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Posted 07/31/2022   2:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stampdorkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Attached are front and back scans of the stamp in question. Stamp is illustration type A28. However this stamp is printed on semi-transparent paper with gum perf 12. It is not former #59 as the illustration for that was A28a without the ornaments in corners. Would be something like #69TC6 but this listing does not exist for 12c stamp. For 24c stamp #70TC6 is for the 24c on semi-transparent paper perf 12 gummed.

Thanks for any info on this stamp.

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Posted 07/31/2022   3:13 pm  Show Profile Check Chipshot's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Chipshot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
will follow along and see what people think, I doubt it was produced that way, sorry.
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Posted 07/31/2022   7:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Are there any signs of a grill?
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Posted 07/31/2022   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The impression appears too sharp for a stamp; but something about those corners keeps bothering me. I keep wonder whether someone added them at some point long ago in an attempt to create a new essay. There was a time when the Proof and Essay Society members kept prices very strong for things. This needs to be seen in person and put under a UV.
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Posted 08/01/2022   08:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Took some time this AM to look more closely and come to the conclusion that it is not a stamp or an essay/proof but perhaps a published image that has been cutout and played with. The black is all wrong but more importantly the impression is very wrong with too much finer detail missing. Particularly noticeable if you look at Washington's coat which is mostly solid color and the density of the crosshatching in the portrait. That is my opinion but am very interested in what others may think.
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Posted 08/01/2022   2:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perfs look very odd. Especially on the bottom. They look 'manufactured', and not by the guys that officially manufacture them. Which makes me think the whole thing is manufactured. Somebody got an image somewhere on thin paper (is it onion-skin paper?) and perfed it.
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Posted 08/03/2022   7:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampdorkman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for input. There is no evidence of grill. Though scan does not show it there is fine detail lines on coat. Tried scanning again with black background. A little better but does not show all the detail on stamp.


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Posted 08/03/2022   7:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampdorkman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for all the inputs. There is no evidence of grill. Though scan does not show it there are fine detail lines on coat. Tried scanning again with black background. A little better but does not show all the detail on stamp. I do see what you mean about the corners and the perfs.


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Posted 08/03/2022   7:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All that I can think of is that the stamp is badly thinned.
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Posted 08/03/2022   7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the direction revcollector suggests:

Quote:
This needs to be seen in person and put under a UV.

It needs the full forensic examination - longwave and shortwave UV as well as a watermark dip at a minimum.
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Posted 08/06/2022   10:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampdorkman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As suggested did what you recommended. Watermark dip - stamp not thin some album remnant at top center attached to hinge - paper almost opaque with crackly gum. No evidence of doctoring corners from watermark dip. Paper although opaque is bright white where gum has not "bled" through. Checked with my UV lamp both long and short wave did not see anything (Leuchtturm Double UV Lamp L81) not real expensive lamp bought more for checking tagging rather than forensic use (had a good lamp but misplaced it and bought this to replace). Looking at back of stamp upper left corner gum is crackly along a diagonal. Hope this info helps. Just at a loss as some mentioned could be manufactured but wmk and uv show no sign of doctoring though not my expertise, which is why I posted to get your suggestions and input based upon your expertise. I am not saying that it has not been doctored - was hoping someone was familiar with the semi-transparent paper and gum of the trial color essay of the 24c stamp #70TC6 or other similar issues.
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Posted 08/07/2022   12:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I asked about a grill because this stamp with an F grill is found on very thin paper. Perhaps the grill was pressed out.
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Posted 08/07/2022   06:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampdorkman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rogdcam or should I call you Sherlock Holmes I believe you have figured it out. I checked with lighter fluid again as I remembered noticing a slightly dark area on stamp but thought it was dark area of coat showing through because of thin paper. Checking again the area was rectangular but not thin spot and it definitely looks like it could have been a grill pressed out although no points evident and not thin but definite rectangular pattern although slightly smaller than 9x13 mm but that could be due to weak grill and the pressing process. Without you mentioning it could be a grill pressed out I never would have figured it out as there are no points evident. Thanks to all for your help. Glad you persisted Rogdcam.
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Posted 08/07/2022   7:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What you found sounds interesting but adds to the mystery since the grills on very thin paper stamps were very well defined compared to "normal" paper. I threw it out there thinking that it could have been pressed out, but I would think that there would be grill points left to see readily. This is a tough one.
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Posted 08/11/2022   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampdorkman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam thanks for your help if you can suggest next step let me know.

thanks
george
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Posted 08/11/2022   8:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like the next step is to send it to the PF.
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