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To Certify Or Not To Certify - And Is There A Cheaper Solution?

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Posted 08/17/2022   1:33 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add rlsny to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I acquired a bunch of Scott# 85s and 85Bs sometime back. (From the Langs estate.) The grills look great to me - most with very clear grills - several with small faults. But no certs. I listed a few on eBay but without a cert. I just have the sense they may never sell at a reasonable price without certs.

Between the 85s and 85Bs I have 18 uncertified stamps.

If I send them into the PF it's going to cost me quite a sum. So it's a dilemma. I probably need to get them certified, but I wonder if there is a better way.

Does anyone have any other suggestion? Is there any reputable service that can handle these and maybe charge less or have some sort of bulk discount? I know I'm grasping at straws but had to ask.
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Edited by rlsny - 08/17/2022 1:34 pm

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Posted 08/17/2022   1:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would spread the cost out. Send in 1/4 or 1/3 of the group for certs. When they sell, then you have the funds available to certify another fractional group, etc.

Saving money on certs will get you cheaper certs, but they are just that - cheaper certs with possibly lesser marketability, which was what you were seemingly trying to avoid.
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Posted 08/17/2022   2:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oracle of Delphi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I second the suggestion above and also opine that you may well get the cert fee back and more when the stamps get sold. I'm just one data point, but when I was a buyer of good US, I wouldn't touch any stamp above $200-300 or so without a cert, preferably from the PF. And if it did have a cert at least opining that it was genuine, I was willing to pay significantly more than I would without the cert. And, when I sold the stamps at auction later, I am convinced that having all those certs that came with the stamps or those that I arranged for to replace older ones or non-PF ones really helped me get top value. So, my humble observation is, if you want them to (1) actually sell and (2) sell for a goodly amount, it's worth paying up for the PF certs, at least in installments, as John suggests. Good luck.
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Edited by Oracle of Delphi - 08/17/2022 2:23 pm
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Posted 08/17/2022   3:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Given that the stamps are ex-Langs, and Kelleher did not run the stamps as individual lots, I would be afraid that many of the stamps will come back with faults and repairs. If that is the case, the PF certs will not be cost-effective. I think Bill Crowe issues certs, but I don't know his pricing.
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Posted 08/17/2022   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They may very well have certs that due to faults mentioned or other unfavorable results were "lost".
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Posted 08/17/2022   5:19 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are faults written on the stamp holders on a few. Things like sealed tear and tiny perf issues are actually indicated on the holders. I of course will also check before sending in. But faults are to be expected when sending this many stamps in. That is certainly part of the price. I know, as I said, that I'm grasping at straws. I just feel bad that people are not able to look at the images and see for themselves a D grill - or a even a Z grill. But realistically it is the price of doing business and eventually I'll face up to it.
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Posted 08/17/2022   5:21 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to throw a sound 85 up on auction next week. What the heck. Let's see if anyone in eBay-land is paying attention.
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Posted 08/17/2022   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you checked the PF website to see if any have flunked previously?
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Posted 08/17/2022   6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The PF has issued over 600 certs for 85 alone. Might be a good crowdsourcing project.
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Posted 08/17/2022   6:25 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When a cert is indicated I have searched and generally found the certs are ancient or too old to be included - even in the old certs category. I have a sense that Langs was a stamp horder for many decades. One positive aspect of these lots are so many stamps that haven't seen light in a very long time. I may give it a shot, but honestly I trust my own ability to tell the grills apart.
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Posted 08/18/2022   10:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is not a solicitation for business, but an answer to a question. My minimum fee is $20 and that covers stamps with a catalogue value of $1,500.00 or less.

I do not solicit business, but open to helping any one who asks.
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Posted 09/14/2022   2:14 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FYI, I took Bill up on this and got all my Ds and Zs certified. He provided a great alternative for what I needed. Happy camper with 21 new certs.
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Posted 09/14/2022   3:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a note about LANGS , he was not a hoarder . I knew him back in the 1980's thru Greg Manning Auctions . He was a big buyer of U.S. collections and already had developed a customer base . Then when eBay came around in 1999 and sales volumes were picking up . He was in the right place at the right time with a huge inventory.
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Posted 09/14/2022   6:34 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Beg to differ. He might have had a customer base, but his holdings were quite a bit larger than his base. I know someone who visited his place in the 90s or 2000s and described strewn out stuff everywhere.
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Posted 09/14/2022   7:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My apologies for going off-topic but Lang's name has a Pavlovian affect upon me.

Cherrystone had a number of Lang large lots in today's auction. Hawaii, CZ, Guam etc. all on 102 cards with his enthusiastic descriptions. None sold. His material is strewn far and wide. I wonder if Kelleher farmed some out.
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Posted 09/15/2022   02:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall wrote:

Quote:
his holdings were quite a bit larger than his base. I know someone who visited his place in the 90s or 2000s and described strewn out stuff everywhere.


Many dealers other than rank amateurs have holdings quite a bit larger than their base. It's not a turn-and-burn business. There are US specialist dealers who buy (and sell) foreign stamps and you'd never know. Those stamps or collections are not turned in some later auction because they can do better otherwise.

But what exactly was strewn everywhere? Collection balances with anything of real value removed from them? In any case, if a dealer is traveling all the time, I can see taking only the best (most expensive/easily sold) of recently acquired stuff and leaving any balance at home or office.
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