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Benjamin Franklin 1 Cent Stamp Enquiry

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Valued Member

United Kingdom
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Posted 09/25/2022   11:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Kas7777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone, I have a Benjamin Franklin 1 Cent stamp and the perforations appear to be measuring 9.5x9.5. The only similar stamps I can find measure 10.5x11 so I was wondering if anyone could advise me on this. I have attached an image of the stamp, sorry it's just a photograph but hopefully it will show enough detail to see the measurements. Thanks
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Posted 09/25/2022   11:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This stamp comes with several different perforation rates. The most common is 11x10.5, then 11x11, then 10x10, then a few uncommon types (not to mention booklets and coils). Yours is perf 10x10, Scott 581.

As further explanation, the perforation rates are not exactly 10, or 11 or 10.5 but only close. The Scott catalog (like others) rounds the perforation rate to the nearest 0.5 so despite what your gauge tells you, your stamp is perf 10x10 for cataloging purposes. It also has a Chicago, Illinois precancel applied by the (US Government's) Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which comes only on the perf 10x10 stamp. This series was a workhorse set of definitives in use for 15+ years and has a number of varieties as production technologies changes.

I see you are in the UK so it may be more difficult to get a Scott U.S. Specialized catalog which has a good identifier section in the introductory pages. Alternatively, the stampsmarter.com website has a good identifier tool to narrow down the possibilities.

Add: Terminology: the perforation rate is noted as "top x side", thus the others Franklin stamps you are finding from this series will be 11x10.5, rather than 10.5x11.
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Edited by John Becker - 09/25/2022 11:36 am
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United Kingdom
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Posted 09/25/2022   12:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kas7777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John Becker, thank you so much for your prompt, polite and explanative reply, it is much appreciated. I have now attached some images of the stamp on the perforation guide measuring 10x10 but as you can see it is nowhere near this measurement, hence why I assumed the correct measurement must be 9.5x9.5 as it is the only one that the stamp even vaguely fits into. Thanks.



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Posted 09/25/2022   12:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wager that the printed perf gauge is inaccurate.
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Posted 09/25/2022   12:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perf gauges created for European stamps will not work for US stamps, and vice versa. The diameter of the holes is not the same, so even though the number of perfs within 20mm might be identical, the stamps will not fit correctly.
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Posted 09/25/2022   1:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kas7777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the replies. Yes I also thought it was a perf gauge problem but I have a few of these 1 cent stamps and they measure perfectly. I have attached images of one of the other stamps and as you can see it fits perfectly as a 10.5x10. Thanks

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Posted 09/25/2022   1:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The diameter of the holes is not the same, so even though the number of perfs within 20mm might be identical, the stamps will not fit correctly


Huh???

If the correct number of dots/holes are there for the gauge, the size of each dot will not change the result of the gauging. Some gauges have only lines at a slight diagonal. The correct identification of this stamp does not require the precision of a Kiusalas gauge.

And I agree with Rogdcam, the poster's gauge may be faulty and should be checked. This stamp should gauge much closer to 10x10 than shown. Specifically you just posted this image:



With this Franklin stamp, the 10.5 rate can appear ONLY along the sides, never along the top/bottom. The fact that the bottom row of perforations aligns so closely demonstrates quite clearly that your perforation gauge is faulty. The color of this last stamp is indicative of the 11x10.5 issue (Scott 632). Your gauge reads about 0.5 low on both stamps you have shown here.
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Edited by John Becker - 09/25/2022 1:34 pm
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Posted 09/25/2022   2:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Huh???


It should be clear enough. If the holes are not the same size, then the perf tips will not be the same size either. Smaller holes mean wider perf tips, and larger holes mean narrower perf tips. I never comprehend why this is difficult to understand.
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Posted 09/25/2022   2:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Reddeye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kas7777. Here is another example of the gauge lying for the most part. and this is on a descent gauge. This is showing as a perf 11.5 and I don't know of any 11.5 in this stamp It is a perf 11 by 10.5 on Scott 655. It is the only one out of around 30 we have that will fit this nicely on the gauge at this point. Variations can compound and lead you into rabbit holes.
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Posted 09/25/2022   2:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
10 perforation holes evenly spaced within a distance of 20mm is 10 perforation holes evenly spaced within a distance of 20mm regardless of hole size. Center to center is what matters, not the width of the perforation tips.
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Posted 09/25/2022   2:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is perfectly clear and scientific. The proper spacing of the center-to-center distance of the holes is the critical feature. The size of properly-spaced holes will not change the result of gauging here.
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Posted 09/25/2022   3:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
10 perforation holes evenly spaced within a distance of 20mm is 10 perforation holes evenly spaced within a distance of 20mm regardless of hole size. Center to center is what matters, not the width of the perforation tips.


But different sized holes will have differently spaced center points relative to each other, so what fits on one gauge will not fit on another. I have even found that the Kiusalas gauge meant for 20th century stamps does not work particularly well on first issue or private die revenues; I always try to use other inexpensive first issue stamps to check those perfs.
And that 655 is not an exact fit for 11.5 either, the left side perfs are drifting left, and the right side perfs are drifting right. But perfs are often not exact between examples anyway.
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Posted 09/25/2022   3:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Reddeye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, agree fully. I was giving another example with what I had around me at the time.
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Posted 09/25/2022   3:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My apologies to the original poster for this thread going off in to the weeds. It happens sometimes.


Quote:
But different sized holes will have differently spaced center points relative to each other

The spacing of the center points and the diameter of the holes are two independent facets. Simple.
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Australia
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Posted 09/25/2022   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is showing as a perf 11.5


No its not.
Line your first tooth / hole on the left hand side accurately.
If you do, you will see the right hand teeth gradually move out of sync.

You seem to be lining up the middle holes, and thus mis reading.

To read a guaging accurately, you MUST line up the left hand tooth / hole first, and work right.


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Edited by rod222 - 09/25/2022 4:25 pm
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Posted 09/25/2022   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The spacing of the center points and the diameter of the holes are two independent facets. Simple.


Agree,
A perf 14 die, will always be perf 14, no matter what diameter of the puncturing pins.
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