Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Proposed Merger Of The APS And Asda

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Replies: 411 / Views: 17,727Next Topic
Page: of 28
Pillar Of The Community
4729 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rogdcam, Whatever "rules" you want to impose, who do you expect to be the "rules police" and how do you expect them to enforce the rules. A draconian approach will drive dealers away. Are you volunteering to be "Big Brother"?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3155 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:29 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Expertizing adds credibility (and cost), but a deal is worked to provide discounting for ASDA members to expertize. The expertizers will welcome the new volume deluge, so it starts to become a win/win of helpful business growth. Customers now trust this process."

While they might have some excess capacity, there are a limited number of competent expertizers (and declining every yet) and a deluge could overwhelm them.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9446 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rogdcam, Whatever "rules" you want to impose, who do you expect to be the "rules police" and how do you expect them to enforce the rules. A draconian approach will drive dealers away. Are you volunteering to be "Big Brother"?


Not sure where the "rules" thing came from. It is all free market. A dealer could choose to join and abide by the requirements or not. Isn't the whole premise of any organization that has a code of ethics/conduct to enforce same?

We are coming full circle to having a logo with no real teeth to enforce anything. What is the point?

It always goes like this. The "old guard" throws up an argument to any innovation or change.

Let's not change a thing because it is all great the way it is.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5623 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:45 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
But there has to be more to it than just increased rules and requirements for the dealers. There has to be sufficient incentive or benefit to justify not only the hundreds of dollars in annual membership fees, but jumping through said hoops.

Just having increased scrutiny or regulation on its own "for the good of the hobby" isn't good enough. You'll wind up with an organization with no members.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
78 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add caspian65 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Forgive if this was already discussed... I believe a rating system, like eBay feedback would be a good start. Something that allows buyers to rate sellers and that information readily available on the web.

Concerning certs, a consistent return policy that all sellers agree to would be helpful. Basically, an assurance that buyers can get a refund if something bought is not as described. Ideally, there could be an easy submission process for APS/ASDA sellers to submit on the behalf of a buyer and then be delivered directly to the buyer and not have to go back to the seller (considering no issues). Should be a 100% refund, with the dealer having to cover cost of the certificate if not as-described. I'm no expert, but can generally spot stamps with issues such as re-gum, re-perf, thins/tears.... I would think that experienced dealers would be much better at spotting items like this and describing them appropriately.

Anyone that has spent considerable time searching online auctions and observing offerings from dealers/sellers, can see through some of their practices. There's a particular dealer in N. Carolina that lists a large number of auctions online. They have a tremendous amount of items that have been certified/graded. Items that are not certified/graded are almost always over-described and over-priced, when we know good and well if it was what they had described, they would have a cert. It becomes obvious that anything they sell without a certificate likely has a reason there isn't one. Most of their graded items are priced above SMQ, so not even worth the time to look at their offerings... glad eBay has a filter to exclude sellers from searches.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
675 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   7:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Its abiding by return policies, cert requests and other good stewardship if you don't have a cert. The point is not the cert per se, but the assurance. It can be compensated for. But certs at least eliminate ambiguity for many problematic areas.

Its these types of things that should make a buyer feel as though they can trust the seller.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rismoney - 11/23/2022 7:57 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8420 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   8:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm no expert, but can generally spot stamps with issues such as re-gum, re-perf, thins/tears.... I would think that experienced dealers would be much better at spotting items like this and describing them appropriately.




I wish that was true, but it is not. Some are very good at such things, and some don't have a clue.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
4817 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just show a stamp on this site and ask if re-gum or re-perf. 15 pages of disagreement.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9446 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   8:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Reading the comments, it dawned on me that this discussion, in particular the certification requirement comments that I happen to agree with in large part, is United States centric. I speak from the perspective of being a collector of Russia. In the recent past I have purchased some higher cv items from an APS dealer who operates on eBay and which turned out to be expertly regummed. Certs would have helped tremendously but WW material is not as readily certified as US material. That is a hurdle that may be difficult to overcome. Many of the experts that specialize in many of these things are very small shops with long turnaround and shipping times not to mention cost.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
11204 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   8:55 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just show a stamp on this site and ask if re-gum or re-perf. 15 pages of disagreement.


And the 15 pages are based upon image(s) which no one knows for sure if they too have been manipulated.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8420 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   9:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Certs would have helped tremendously but WW material is not as readily certified as US material.


The PF have people that can expertise WW material including Russia.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3155 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   10:48 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"I'm no expert, but can generally spot stamps with issues such as re-gum, re-perf, thins/tears.... I would think that experienced dealers would be much better at spotting items like this and describing them appropriately."

Thins & tears easy to spot if not mucked with, fairly easy to see even if mucked with. Bad regum & bad reperf jobs are easy to spot. Expert regum & bad reperf jobs not so easy. As for experienced dealers, it depends on whether they want to see such faults (are they either lazy or unethical?) and whether their eyes are any good (plenty aren't).

"Just show a stamp on this site and ask if re-gum or re-perf. 15 pages of disagreement"

I was roasted once for saying that, but it is faitly true.

"And the 15 pages are based upon image(s) which no one knows for sure if they too have been manipulated."

If it is an image borrowed from eBay or another auction site, this is true. If it came from someone seeking an opinion of what they own, not likely
unless it is a nefarious person who hopes to talk t up before they put it on eBay).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
11204 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   11:00 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think that there many folks who do even realize that they are applying filters to their images. Please note that I am referring to any kind of filter being applied including using an optimizer to resize the images. Other times it could be that the scanning software (i.e. Epson) automatically (and by default) applies filters to every scan.

Some folks may falsely apply filters thinking, 'I'll make it look as close as I can' not realizing that this is true only on their monitor.

For me, I assume that every image I look at online has had some kind of filter applied to it.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8420 Posts
Posted 11/23/2022   11:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thins & tears easy to spot if not mucked with, fairly easy to see even if mucked with.


Not always. A quality repair can sometimes be difficult even for the knowledgeable collector, and require dipping more then once and a good 15x or stronger at times. I have occasionally seen known repairs on very expensive stamps that were all but impossible to see even knowing they were there.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9446 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   12:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The PF have people that can expertise WW material including Russia.


And they have issued clear certs that were overturned by expertizers such as Rossica. I know this firsthand.

Anyway, whatever is said Revcollector will argue. It's part of the game.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 28 Replies: 411 / Views: 17,727Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.27 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05