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Help With Triangular Marking On Postcard.

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New Member

Ireland
4 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Redarmy1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi.
I am a collector of Irish pre 1960 postal material.
I have a postcard sent from LUZERN to DUBLIN on 13cJuly 1907.
Can anyone identify the triangular marking under the stamp?
It encloses the word SCOTCH with either a 4 or + underneath.
Any help would be appreciated.
]
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Pillar Of The Community
4728 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   09:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum.

Gentle hint: when asking about "postal history" like this, it is good to show the entire mail piece to have the full context, then add the close-up of the particular aspect you have a question about.

That said, please consider adding a reply with an image of the entire piece (and the reverse side if there are any posal markings there). Thanks!

And you might get some interesting tangential information relating to other aspects of the mail piece.
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New Member
Ireland
4 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Redarmy1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again.
For clarity, I have attached an image of the entire card.
Any info is appreciated.
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Pillar Of The Community
4728 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Speculation: a privately-applied mark by the brewery's mail room.

My thinking: The Wikipedia page for the Guinness Brewery (St James Gate Brewery), notes the Brewery was over 64 acres in size by 1868 (40 acres being 0.25 miles square), so quite huge. Similarly in 1907, they would have had hundreds (if not thousands) of employees scattered among many dozens of buildings. The simplicity of the address makes me think that "Scotch ..." is a building or department identifier added by the Brewery's mail room, positioned just after the person's name where it would normally be expected to appear in fully-addressed corporate mail.

Just a guess, but it would be interesting to see other brewery-addressed mail and the insights of others because sometimes the fastest way to get the correct answer is to post an incorrect guess and get jumped-on with the correction!!
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Edited by John Becker - 11/14/2022 11:22 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   11:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Fascinating Postmark!
I have searched inside 12 bulletins of "The Revealer"...nothing
Cat of Irish Postmarks only lists a "Scotch Street" (No image)

I like John's speculation.

No entry in the Database, 2 for Scotch street, but circular date stamps.

No entry in Stitt-Dibden Triangular Postmarks, there is a "Bed St" triuangular
so street triangulars do exist.

No apparent entry in Curt Furnau catalogue of printed matter Pmks

Both of the above are not OCR'd , so I cannot digitally search them.


Quote:
because sometimes the fastest way to get the correct answer is to post an incorrect guess and get jumped-on with the correction!!

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Edited by rod222 - 11/14/2022 11:20 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

"Scotch Street" is a village, some 90 miles North of Dublin,
so that cancels out that suggestion.
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New Member
Ireland
4 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   4:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Redarmy1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your input.
It is an interesting proposition that this mark was applied at the brewery.
As far as I can ascertain, only stout was being produced in the brewery in 1907, so the mention of scotch throws me.
I think I might contact Diagio and see if they have any information about this marking in their archive.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/14/2022   7:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think I might contact Diagio


Personally, I would be emailing "The Revealer" webmaster / editor.
(I am happy to do that, if you wish)

Look forward to solving the mystery.
If it were common we should have located more of these.

No entry in "Triangular Postmarks of Ireland"
Bib: C J Palermo.
(Stampsmarter)

https://stampsmarter.org/learning/G...s%20adopted.
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Edited by rod222 - 11/14/2022 7:30 pm
New Member
Ireland
4 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   07:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Redarmy1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Got a reply from Diagio today.
They confirm that this is not a marking made by them. There has never been a building named SCOTCH on their property.
Interestingly the writer referred me to a current item on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143665264777
which has a similar marking.
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Pillar Of The Community
France
2405 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   07:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
95 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   10:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamp Hunting to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's my 2 cents worth.

Redarmy1 posted a link to eBay. In the associated pictures for the item one of them has some annotations about the "Scotch" mark being used as a cancel for an uncancelled cover. The other examples being show, including vayolene's link to eBay, in this thread show they were cancelled. So, I'm not thinking along those lines.

I am thinking that it could possibly be a customs stamp, denoting that it has been inspected/checked upon entry. I haven't found a viewable catalog as of yet. Just wanted to get this out there, for mental consumption.
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Edited by Stamp Hunting - 11/15/2022 10:47 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Solved.

Triangles, APEX pointing down.

Mail misorted to the travelling Post Offices on trains or to Railway offices.
They occur from the 1870's, and at first, bore the initials of the railway postal divisions.

eg "G.W." (Great Western)
"SUB" (Suburban)
"SCOTCH" etc

Addenda
The small triangular marks described in the last two paragraphs,
can sometimes be found used as cancellations on postage stamps not obliterated at the sending office.


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Edited by rod222 - 11/15/2022 12:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2683 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   1:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Both of the above are not OCR'd , so I cannot digitally search them.


Rod,

Want me to OCR those for you?
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
95 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamp Hunting to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice job rod222.

Once we all start thinking out loud, and post our thoughts, the answer always presents itself. I love this forum.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   1:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nice job rod222.


Thank you stamphunter
That means a lot, but, passing on my kudos to my mentor Mr. Blair Harris
(Canada) and, (The famous philatelist ) Mr. Jay Carrigan

The power of knowledge passed on.

I finally found my source, (My database is 22 years old)
here is the discussion I had around 2003 -2005 2008 about triangular postmarks


The answer was within

Mr. Jay Carrigan, had read
British Postmarks, A short History ...Alcock and Holland


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Edited by rod222 - 11/15/2022 1:46 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37400 Posts
Posted 11/15/2022   1:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rod,
Want me to OCR those for you?


You are so generous, PostmasterGS, Thank you.

I'll have a Bo-peep at the monographs.
Curt Furnau should be OK

But the scarce Stitt-Dibden monograph, is (probably) a much stolen / copied example I bought from my stamp club
It is "mimeographed" is that the word?

Grainy at best, it probably won't OCR
I'll have a look and email you some example pages.

I also have a scarce monograph on TURKEY TURKIYE from the 19th century
You may be able to OCR that
and we can place on "STAMPSMARTER" (with approval)

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Edited by rod222 - 11/15/2022 2:08 pm
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