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GB 1786 Stampless Cover With Confusing Marks

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 296Next Topic  
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United States
23 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   12:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add azstampguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I got this cover with a some marks that have me confused. It is dated May5, 1786 and has a bishop mark on the back. It looks like it is marked '3' for the rate charged as well as a "Sherborne 120" which I assume is a provincial post mark maybe, help would be appreciated on that as it is not in my reference book.

What is confusing is why '3' as Sherborne to London is just over 120 miles so should have been 6d

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36819 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   02:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sherborne, 6 miles from my home town.
Look forward to the replies.


Middle Temple.
wiki
The Honourable Society of the Middle Temple, commonly known simply as Middle Temple, is one of the four Inns of Court exclusively entitled to call their members to the English Bar as barristers, the others being the Inner Temple, Gray's Inn and Lincoln's Inn. It is located in the wider Temple area of London, near the Royal Courts of Justice, and within the City of London.

Addressee appears to be one Edmund Chalmers
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Edited by rod222 - 11/24/2022 02:28 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36819 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   03:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Where may you be getting your postage rates from please?

Closest I have, 31st August 1784 George lll Session 2, c37

Within England 80 to 150 miles = 5d
Bib: Oliver / Tanner 2006

Which I think is correct , Your "3" is actually a "5" agree?

I cannot find any reference to "120 Sherborne"
Receiving House?
Nothing listed in John Hendy

I have no literature on Bishop Marks, or how to read them (sadly)


Right May 5th
http://www.earsathome.com/webgil/bishop.html


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Edited by rod222 - 11/24/2022 03:24 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36819 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   03:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SHERBORNE MILEAGE MARK
https://www.barrell.co.uk/products/110223
Confirming your 3 is a 5
Same hand / author / postal clerk

DT507 any members recognise that reference ?

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Edited by rod222 - 11/24/2022 03:37 am
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Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   03:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well observed rod that it is a 5 and not a 3.
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Valued Member
United States
23 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   12:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add azstampguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am using Collect British Postmarks by Whitney. In there it does not have a 5d rate until 1796, which is why I was assuming the 5 is a 3.
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Posted 11/24/2022   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Appears to be a 5 to me as well.
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Netherlands
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Posted 11/24/2022   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The horizontal top bar of the 5 extends to the first 'd' in 'Middle Temple.' Same ink as the part that looks like a '3.'
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Australia
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Posted 11/24/2022   2:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's certainly a 5 which, according to a PDF I have called "UK Letter Rates 1635-1839" (which appears to be an extract from "Postal History International 1976") is correct as per the 1784 rates. The charge is for a single letter "above 80 miles but not exceeding 150 miles".

Lowe (volume 1 of the encyclopedias) states that this rate should be 6d, but I think this is a typo. In "England's Postal History" by Willcocks (1975) the rate is stated as 5d.

Rod, the reference is from the British County Catalogue of Postal History, volume 4, by Willcocks & Jay.

According to the catalogue the handstamp is known used from 1786 to 1791, but with Rod's image we can see that it was in use from at least 1784.

The 120 is the mileage to London at that time. These measurements have changed over the centuries.
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Author of "The De La Rue Stamps of NSW" and "They Carried The Mails: The Conveyance of Post Office Mail in the Central West of NSW in the 19th Century"
Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 11/24/2022 3:16 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36819 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   4:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bobby, noted.

In 1711 Postal rates took 2/3rds of England at 4d
(London, North to Berwick, and London West to Falmouth)

Further west was 1/- to New York

(An impost of 1 extra penny, for an extra 70 miles, on a stagecoach seems good value to me )

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Edited by rod222 - 11/24/2022 4:15 pm
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Netherlands
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Posted 11/24/2022   5:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bobby, Rod,

the rates you mention are also given by the SG Specialised Volume 1, Part 1, 1st. Edition, page 3 (top right).

It, further, states this 'first' type of town postmark with mileage was introduced in 1784 and remained in use until 1801. It does not state anything about individual town marks, but shows "98 LYMING / TON" and the second type used from 1801 until 1829.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36819 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thankyou NSK
Noted / saved.
I think we have this cover dealt with.

Lovely laid paper, has kept well over the distance.
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Australia
2231 Posts
Posted 11/24/2022   10:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So it does NSK!

I never thought to look there, but wouldn't have anyway given the other reference material I have.
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Author of "The De La Rue Stamps of NSW" and "They Carried The Mails: The Conveyance of Post Office Mail in the Central West of NSW in the 19th Century"
Valued Member
United States
23 Posts
Posted 11/26/2022   2:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add azstampguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the help, managed to find the references to the postage rate charts so it all makes sense now.
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