Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

US Postal Regulations For Postmark Ink Colors

Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 45 / Views: 1,080Next Topic
Page: of 3
Pillar Of The Community
4780 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   10:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hy-brasil, you wrote
Quote:
I wondered then why go from two parts then one then back to two for the VE cancel?

They don't. One can't remove the bar portion and put them back on. They are part of the device. They are all masked-off 4-bars. Just different abilities to mask-off the bars.

Eyeonwall, Ink is a supply ordered and used regularly. The regs are very simple from the 1880s to after WWII that the USPOD supplies everything and stamps are cancelled in black ink. Anything not in black (or occasionally red/magenta) has an extremely high chance of being collector-supplied ink.

More broadly: trying to learn postal history & the associated rules/regulations by studying philatelic mail is a poor approach. There is considerable bending of rules. The fancy registered killers of the late 1920s and early 1930s surely prove this and it was eventually shut down as described in the introductory pages of Fishback and Walker's updated/revised edition of Loso and deWindt's "20th Century U.S. Fancy Cancelations" volume published in 1987.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by John Becker - 12/02/2022 10:10 am
Pillar Of The Community
1480 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   12:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...studying philatelic mail is a poor approach. There is considerable bending of rules.


Not sure that was ever in doubt. What I hoped to determine was if there has ever been any effort to adress this "considerable bending of rules." I'm taking the answer to be no. (Edit: perhaps with the issue with fancy cancels excepted? The use of color in approproved modern pictoral postmarks seems to be an anomaly, however.)

The meanderings of the thread have been personally interesting, but I suppose there is not much else that can be said as to its original purpose.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by blcjr - 12/02/2022 12:49 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
11252 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   12:59 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Basil,
I supported the thread wanderings because it keeps the thread active, the hope being that someone might weigh in with more exacting information you originally asked about.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4780 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   1:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basil, The effort would be to research the rules in the Postal Laws and Regulations volumes and in the Postal Bulletins.

As you echoed, the 20th Century Fancy Cancelations book noted above references several reminders published in the Postal Bulletin - so there have been some reminders of the rules.

I know of no procedure in the 1880s to post-WWII era to seek exceptions to the ink or postmarking regulations (i.e. a "form" to submit).

Certainly what the USPS is doing now with ink-jet pictorials is best characterized as a changing of the rules for FDCs and other philatelic products rather than a bending of rules.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1480 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, I was thinking of the diversion and dialog with hy-brazil brought about by my mention of backdating cancellations. In my case, the two issues -- unauthorized inks, and backdating -- could reflect a particular ethos associated with the WW II patriotic covers of Victory, VT. I think your post does add to the discussion in light of John's mention of the issues with fancy cancels. Looking at the covers illustrated in the article you posted, there are both philatelic and regular mail covers shown. I have to wonder if the fact that postal authorities came down on the use of fancy cancels in the literature cited by John was because of widespread use to cancel ordinary mail, rather than sporadic use for philatelic purposes.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
577 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   1:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mml1942 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Most of the rules and regulations from the late 19th century and probably up into the 1920s about using ONLY USPOD supplied inks were part of the effort to prevent the washing of stamps for reuse.

The Department believed (probably correctly) that locally manufactured inks would not be permanent, and thus allow stamps to be washed and reused.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4780 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   1:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basil, Which covers in Don's post do you think are regular mail? I don't see any which aren't completely philatelic.

(Yes, "F.C." = first class, but these would all be collector-inspired philatelic creations, just at a lower cost than registered mail.)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by John Becker - 12/02/2022 2:07 pm
Pillar Of The Community
1480 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   2:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John, I took the covers without cachets to be ordinary mail, but in retrospect realize that is not necessarily the case.

One of the covers has a marking applied that looks like "Found in ordinary mail." Is that a recognized postal marking, and if so, what does it mean?

Basil
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4780 Posts
Posted 12/02/2022   2:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Found in ordinary mail."

is an auxiliary marking placed onto mail which should have been segregated out for special treatment. I have seen this most often on registered letters dropped in a postbox and found by the clerk/postmaster as they were sorting.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
600 Posts
Posted 12/03/2022   08:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Morning John and all,

I think "found in ordinary mail" is only seen on registered items? Can it be found on any other types of mail that could be dropped into a pick up box?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4780 Posts
Posted 12/03/2022   09:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hoosierboy, I have only one example handy of the "found in ordinary mail" marking, which is used on registered mail found outside the control of the registry system and subsequently registered.




A browse through the 1948 Postal Laws and Regulations volume mentions the "found in..." marking only in regard to registered mail. Also a similar "not in the registered mail".

The auxiliary mark is legitimate/recognized. As an example, in this supplies listing, it is item #31:



This thread on mail discovered in higher or lower classifications or odd places has related examples:
http://goscf.com/t/75087



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by John Becker - 12/03/2022 10:11 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
600 Posts
Posted 12/04/2022   09:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, John. Does anyone have a similar publication from other years listing available devices?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
577 Posts
Posted 12/04/2022   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mml1942 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
See the Stamp Smarter page:

https://stampsmarter.org/learning/P...upplies.html


If you compare John's page entry with the 1952 Catalog on Stamp Smarter, which is a supply catalog for the Fourth Class office, you will see that entry No. 31 is not present. This implies that this type of stamp was not provided to all post offices, only the Presidential Class.

Anyone with other editions of any of these catalogs is invited (and encouraged) to offer copies to be digitized and added to this Stamp Smarter page.
Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by mml1942 - 12/04/2022 10:58 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
600 Posts
Posted 12/05/2022   10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Morning Mike and all,

Where can I find a complete list of supplies available to each class of post office?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
577 Posts
Posted 12/05/2022   10:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mml1942 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Russ:

All the information I have is in the catalogs which I scanned and posted on Stamp Smarter.

Your question is rather broad in scope. Are you interested in current information or historical information back to 1776?

Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous TopicReplies: 45 / Views: 1,080Next Topic  
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.22 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05