Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Romania Back Of Book Cat.michel.

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 550Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member

United States
66 Posts
Posted 12/20/2022   4:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add archiguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The RIGHT stamp is the Romanian occupation of the Hungarian Transvalia (known as the Nagyszeben private issue). Back side of Michel's catalog book.(Rare in Mint condition)
Look at the left 3 used stamp. They have other types of overprints. They was not noticed in Michel. Who met these type of overprints?
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
Posted 12/20/2022   11:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archiguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Pity Nobody could not answer.
I help .

They are:
Romania 1919-23 local stamps for the former Turkish island of Ada Kaleh
(Romania local overprint on a Hungarian stamps)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
269 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   10:13 am  Show Profile Check DC3's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add DC3 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Pity you said Transvalia.
I help:
Transilvania?
:)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by DC3 - 12/22/2022 10:13 am
Pillar Of The Community
Israel
945 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   11:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Regarding definition, why would Romanian occupation stamps be considered BOB stamps? The German/Japanese and other occupations' stamps are considered regular postage stamps.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3154 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   12:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My Michel catalog notes the right stamp overprint is bogus. What year/edition are you using?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2624 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   1:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@hy-brasil, two fellow members posted in a thread on the other board about these stamps. it makes interesting reading.

From what I read, according to Michel and Zumstein, all these overprints are 'Mache' (fabrications) and 'Schwindelerzeugnisse' (fraudulent makings), respectively.

Someone also quoted from an expert in the field. What I understood from this is that the Nagyszeben issue were printed under the direction of a local had the approval of a regional military commander. The quote also mentions these stamps are overprinted in Romanian Bani with the country name and value of the Hungarian stamp obliterated. The stamps overprinted with the Romanian arms, from the article, are fraudulent stamps.

The stamps were not sanctioned by the postal authorities, but it remains unclear whether they were ever used to prepay for postage, As far as it could have been the case, the article mentions it is almost impossible to proof it is questionable whether the cancellations were applied by favour or whether they went through the mail.

I do not think the discussion leaves much doubt about the issue claimed to be a local issue from a tiny island.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by NSK - 12/22/2022 1:51 pm
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   3:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archiguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NSK: VERY Helpful Information.Thanks!
As well as Impossible to read names on Cancellations of stamps.I am sure Cancellations are private produced .
It is interesting : Catalog Michel included Transilvania /Thanks DC3/ OVPRT in Back of Book but did not included stamps of Ada Kaleh.
/hy-brasil / I am using the Michel Catalog :2003/2004 year issue.Thanks for cooperation.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
Posted 12/22/2022   6:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archiguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Conclusion;
Sorry, I found the correct information for these 3 left stamps
This is not a Romanian Ovprt."Ada Kaleh" .
These are Yugoslavia 1918 SNS:
They are overprints of Serbian Coat of Arms / Local stamp of small town ADA /on Hungary stamps with seal of "Temesvár censure" in Serbian.(Cirillic).
Thanks for cooperation.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by archiguy - 12/22/2022 8:45 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2624 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   01:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What they are is what hy-brasil wrote they are.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Romania
528 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   05:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do not have catalogs or information about these stamps, but I can provide you with some geographical information.
Ada-Kaleh was an island on the Danube river near the city of Orsova.



The Turkish name Ada Kale translates as Island Castle.
Until WWI, it was under the administration of the Turkish Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, being part of the BANAT province.
After WWI, the province of Banat was divided between Romania, Serbia and Hungary.
Temesvaru postal cancellation written in Cyrillic letters refers to the city of Timisoara (currently in Romania)
Due to the construction of the hydro dam on the Danube, Portile-de-Fier I (Iron Gates I), the island of Ada-Kaleh was covered by water like several other towns on the sides of the Danube.
I found on a website an envelope with stamps with a similar overprint (or not):

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2624 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice find Cupram. That is a Pancevo (Vojvodina in Serbia) cancel.

From the other site, Zumstein and Michel call these fraudulent fabrications (Schwindelerzeugnisse).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38146 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   05:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Commentary from Romaniastamps.com (scroll to Bogus)

"Display from one joker - he got "The little printer" for Xmas"

--------------------

More rubbish from the idiots

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rod222 - 12/23/2022 05:59 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2624 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   06:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the same site:



Some of these have the 'BANI' overprint and obliterated country name and value that the other site appears to refer to as 'Nagyszeben' issues and suggests may have been the only true 'local issues.' Even then, there are questions as to whether they ever could be or were postally used.

I am not even sure whether the coat-of-arms overprints are 'Nagyszeben' issues. Reading the post, they are not, but later fantasy items intended to defraud collectors.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by NSK - 12/23/2022 06:11 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2624 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by NSK - 12/23/2022 06:44 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
7143 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   06:56 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I sold a bunch of the post-WWI Romania/Hungary overprints a couple of months back, and mentioned the extensive forgery problem. Still had a few bidders - I suppose they fill a gap in albums.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
Posted 12/23/2022   10:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archiguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FORGERY:
.
EBAY:https://www.ebay.com/itm/134370782459

DELCAMPE:

https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/coll...9702717.html

They are forgery of overprints as well as the mistakes made by sellers in both Titles of listings ( It is no Ada-Kaleh/ IT is ADA near Belgrade ).Below I attached the Genuine set of old collector.You can see the differences between my original overprints and fakes.
Have a look at map again.Where is Ada-Kaleh and where is Panchevo But The distance between Pancevo and ADA is 23.3 km.
Any way you are all well done especially cover of Pancevo with censor. It is fantastic.
BELOW IS set of GENUINE :













Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by archiguy - 12/23/2022 10:16 am
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 550Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.22 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05