1868 & 1877 1 Fr Telegraph Stamp Color Questions

Two telegraphs I haven't run across...


ETA: (I understand that they're telegraph-adjacent and not traditional telegraphs.)

There's probably around at least a dozen WWII era telegraph soldier stamps. Even a carrier pigeon telegraph cross over stamp. Trying to not start too far down that rabbit hole (WWII soldier stamps) for my collection, but dabble in the bicycle, ski, telegraph and airforce portions if they look cool.

Can you please tell me the number of this stamp?
z4,z6,z12,z18?
I'm not good at distinguishing colors.
Thanks!

Little Saul, you might find the stamp on www.stampworld.com . Scott does not list these back of the book issues


Peter

Scott doesn't list these, but the Swiss catalogues, and Yvert, and Barefoot, do. In this case, little saul is hoping for confirmation from a Swiss catalogue. Which I can't give. (But I'd guess 4, if I were to guess.)

I would also say, Zumstein #4. Sorry for the condition.

Little Saul:
Zumstein - 4 (or T4)
SBK - 4
Michel - 4
Y/V - 7(B)

This is from the initial 1868 telegraph run. This was switched out from gold leaf and carmine to a golden brown and carmine in 1874 (6,6,6,6a(B))
In 1877, the colors changed somewhat with the center being a dark red that was also prone to fading, so can be a bit harder to identify at first glance.
The 1881 series uses granite paper and a pink center.
All three center colors are listed in Zum. on a spectrum of light to dark for their relevant colors.
Your gold leaf version was only printed from 1868 until 1874.

Thank you for your professional and patient answers!

Happy to help.
Adding another puzzling example.
This auction is selling an 1878 (?) green/carmine stamp with an attest document.
https://www.delcampe.net/en_US/coll...6103311.html
Considering that carmine was swapped out for light red/red in 1877, not sure if they mean to say 1868?
This is the second Italian auction I've seen with a attest of 1878 and green/carmine. I'll have to ask them sometime about it.