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Pelure Paper On Banknotes

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/27/2023   12:21 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would estimate that the collector was fairly advanced. I'm not sure how he/she arrived at the Pelure paper description but it could have been nothing more than the best description that the collector could come up with for what was seemingly very thin paper.

As far as the Linen paper goes, it is my opinion (based on what I can see in the photos), that the description/identification is correct.
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Posted 01/28/2023   1:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sinclair wrote:

Quote:
As far as the Linen paper goes, it is my opinion (based on what I can see in the photos), that the description/identification is correct.



May I ask what you are using as your point of reference for that? I am ignorant of this subject with reference to the Bank Note Issues.
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Posted 02/03/2023   12:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please pardon the bump.

Any chance I can get more information about the notion of Linen paper BankNote Issues?

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Posted 03/10/2023   9:31 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Essayk, I sent you an email. Perhaps that is not an active email address anymore?

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Posted 03/11/2023   05:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I could be completely off-base here, so please forgive me (in advance). If the labeling for those double paper stamps is correct, you have the motherlode of double paper examples. And here I'm assuming that double paper refers to the 1869 Charles Steel double paper Patent No. 86,592 for stamps printed on paper consisting of a top layer of absorbent "blotting-paper," backed with "hard and well-sized paper".

This may be a fortuitous assemblage of a whopping 6 examples, but at the same time it strikes me as odd that someone would need to show 6 examples on the page to get the point across, let alone acquire 6 examples. I'd be curious to know how it was determined that they are double paper, other than perhaps obvious signs of splitting in one or more examples.

And if paper thickness was the determining factor, I'd be interested to know of any authoritative studies in which the thickness of (Charles Steel-patented) double paper stamps were measured.
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Edited by essay_proof - 03/11/2023 05:48 am
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Japan
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Posted 03/13/2023   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comment, essay_proof.

I found another one recently in an old stock book that didn't see the best storage conditions.. The back layer peeled up quite easily (probably because of the deteriorating book it was in).

If I hadn't studied the ones shown in this post as close as I had, most certainly I would have overlooked it like the previous owner did, placing it with otherwise run-of-the-mill, standard issues. But this led me to thinking that they may not be as uncommon as people realize... At least not the 3c anyway.
Just my opinion.
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Posted 03/13/2023   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your reply Stephen-P. Wow, that's amazing.
Pretty soon you'll be able to open Stephen's 3 Double-Paper Wholesale Mart. "Buy 3, get one Free!"
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Japan
243 Posts
Posted 03/14/2023   1:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes! And if you're a good guy I might just throw in a silk banknote for good measure
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Posted 03/15/2023   4:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 03/15/2023   10:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rick2 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Seeing the word "pelure" automatically sends my mind to early Austrian issues.....
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Japan
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Posted 03/16/2023   10:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for bringing those to my attention Rick. They seem relatively cheap, so I'll try to locate one and compare the paper to what is called "Pelure" on this page. They are unlike any banknote paper I've seen, and I don't recall the collector having any other denomination labeled as such in the book it came from. It'll be fun to study!
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Posted 03/16/2023   10:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essay_proof to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if this is going to be relevant or not, but here goes... The only example of pelure paper I've ever focused on comes from the Bowlsby Coupon essays printed on that paper. It has a very distinctive look to it, which I think was captured well in this auction lot photo.
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Japan
243 Posts
Posted 03/18/2023   01:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a HUGE help essay. I'll keep my eyes peeled for one because it's actually pretty cool.

Must be cheap considering it "has no value"
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Posted 03/25/2023   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After the insults (in another thread) I was going to just walk away from this thread and wash my hands of it. However, I have been prevailed upon by another list member to set the record straight. So here goes:

In the OP pictures above of two stamps identified as being on "pelure paper", the paper is demonstrated for being a hard paper with high translucency. However, it is not clear that they have the "transparency" which is characteristic of actual pelure paper. I propose a test along the lines of the following:

Let us start with the pelure paper Bowlsby essay shown by essayproof. Something of the texture of the paper is shown by that pic, but it's translucency is not easily seen there, let alone its transparency..

Here is another pair of that essay which I have placed upon a printed card to show the degree of transparency.



The design beneath the essay is complete top to bottom and visible the whole way. The paper was treated with a sizing agent that gave it that kind of transparency. This is a pelure paper of the 1860s.


In the mid-1870s another pelure paper was used by the Philadelphia Bank Note Company in preparing some models in their bid for the contract of 1877. Here are a couple of examples side-by-side on an exhibit page:



These two are of different printed colors but are on the same type of pelure paper. The example on the right has a pencil inscription beneath it which is visible through the paper. This stamp was purchased from Bill Langs on eBay, and its ID number is given. You should be able to make out when it was purchased and the price paid. (I had not anticipated this much transparency when I mounted up the page.) The example on the left had no such inscription.



Here is another example from the same exhibit page, this time in a color shade similar to that of the three cent Continental shown by the OP, albeit with less yellow tint.



This too has an inscription beneath it which can be read through the paper.

Let me suggest that the OP write something on a small piece of paper, slip it beneath one of the "pelure paper" samples on the album page as above so that part of the inscription is beneath the stamp and part is left uncovered. In this way we can assess the degree to which this paper sample shows not only the translucency but the characteristic transparency of true pelure paper. Your best bet is to position your lettering below the numeral "3" and the wording nearby.


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Edited by essayk - 03/25/2023 12:44 pm
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Posted 03/25/2023   1:16 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
essayk,
Thank you.
Don
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