Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Is This A 182 Or Possible Reperfed 156-P4?

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 953Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   11:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stephen-P to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've been looking at this thing trying to figure it out.
The design appears proof-like, so I guessed it to be a 156-P4 that was cut to look like a standard issue.





The gum on back is much heavier in some areas and wraps around to the left/right front side perfs, so I think it's been regummed. This would further validate the possibility of a forgery. The brush strokes are also short and haphazardly applied when they should only go in one direction:




I thought I had it pegged until realized it was on soft paper. The 156 proofs were made before the American takeover, so I'm at a loss. The perfs and paper gradation also match up nicely with other 182's:





I've heard about proofs being issued on stamp paper before. So could that be the case here?
Thank you
Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9751 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   12:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a regummed 156 to me. It is not a doctored proof.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4149 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   12:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Looks like a regummed 156 to me. It is not a doctored proof.


I thought that as well. Typical hard paper shows cleaner inking, but this one goes beyond even my unused 156 hard p. types in terms of detail despite it being on soft paper.

I don't have any proof papers to compare it with so I was wondering if any bore resemblance to that of soft paper.

I'm glad you say it is regummed though! I don't have any experience with that either aside from knowing it exists, so I just applied what I do know about the gumming process and came to that conclusion.

Getting stronger
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1085 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   4:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The gum-soaked perfs at left and right means it needs more examination. Gum soaked perfs can happen with OG, too, if it's been near water - at best you would end up with disturbed OG. This, however, looks like a regum. The gum just doesn't look right.

As to it being a proof, or not, I will leave that to others with more knowledge.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9751 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   4:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A proof would be on either card stock (P4, cardboard to Scott) or India paper (P3, can be mounted on card stock as well) neither of which is the case here. Sometimes proofs are also shaved to be made thinner but there is no reason to put so much effort into creating a stamp with such poor centering.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8619 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   5:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A 156 that has been played with.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2507 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   8:59 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's a soft paper stamp, so an ABNCo #182.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8619 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   9:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought it might be an intermediate paper 156; the impression and color don't seem like the 182. Also the secret mark is fairly strong, although that does not rule out a 182.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8619 Posts
Posted 01/19/2023   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Look at how sharp the portrait and background are. Also look how much of the design shows from the reverse.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by revcollector - 01/19/2023 9:46 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
9751 Posts
Posted 01/20/2023   08:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I went with 156 for the exact reasons Revcollector outlines above.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/20/2023   10:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The gum-soaked perfs at left and right means it needs more examination. Gum soaked perfs can happen with OG, too, if it's been near water - at best you would end up with disturbed OG.

That's a great to know mootermutt! I believe I have a 156 just like you say here. I'll compare it with this piece...


Quote:
A proof would be on either card stock (P4, cardboard to Scott) or India paper (P3, can be mounted on card stock as well) neither of which is the case here

Man, I really needed that confirmation. MASSIVE help Rogdcam, thank you!


Quote:
I thought it might be an intermediate paper 156;

Thanks for the idea Bart! I'll pull one of those out as well (one that I mentioned here before) and provide comparisons!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2507 Posts
Posted 01/20/2023   10:27 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The paper is much too thick to be intermediate paper. Try to ignore the badly yellowed paper of the stamp to the left. The paper is substantially the same thickness and opacity.

I picked out a similar looking stamp that I can guarantee is a #182. If I was so inclined, I am sure I can find and even closer match. Here it is...

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/21/2023   03:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a nice stamp, Sinclair! There's something great about postmarked stamps that look post office fresh.
As per the first one, I think they're more or less referring to it's impression in saying it's a 156 rather than color or paper thickness.
Those are perfectly fine assumptions, as it's next to impossible to judge certain paper types from pictures alone.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Stephen-P - 01/21/2023 03:43 am
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/21/2023   03:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've dug up two more mint examples, one with disturbed gum as mootermutt mentioned and another on (what I believe to be) intermediate paper kudos to revcollector:




In direct light, the discrepancies in surface texture and opaquness increase accordingly as shown here:
(bottom L- disturbed OG, bottom R, intermediate, top- perceived soft paper)



Adding two more soft papers to picture #2 in this post show how only the silhouette can be seen from the back while not in direct light. They become foggy, whereas the hard paper design tends to 'fade out' depending on the thickness:



The mesh pattern of soft paper is more rectangular and prominent than the staticky dots seen on intermediate:
(Left- soft, Mid- intermediate, Right- perceived soft)

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Japan
242 Posts
Posted 01/21/2023   03:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen-P to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'll get back online later, but thanks again for all the help!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 953Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05