Getting USPS Permit To Use Precanceled Stamps For First Class Mail

https://goscf.com/t/37950&whichpage=2#735850 br /
More MPP info in this thread.

that permit's two forms of ID requirement is daunting since USPS disallows birth certificates and social security cards

Well here is their answer and I am a bit flummoxed as they think I will use 200 pre-cancelled stamps per mailing!!!!! I told the USPS employee I am a stamp collector - I amlucky if I would use 200 pre-canceled stamp per year!!!! Are any of you paying $310 for the permit itself to use precancelled stamps for regular mail????

Here is the message

Jonnakuti, David - New York, NY
4:07#8239;PM (4 hours ago)
to me

Chris



This is the response I got back from PCSC. (see below) So its basically what we talked about last time. There's no application fee but you would still have to pay the Marketing mail fee of $310 every year. With a minimum of 200 pcs per mailing.





Sorry for the delay. Just seeing this.



Yes, You were correct as seen in 8/1/2023 in your email. However, you asked about Postage Evidencing systems which are used for meter stamps. Please see attached.



My response was they cannot use pre-cancelled stamps for retail purposes. If they have a Precancelled Marketing mail permit, they can use the stamps with no fee payment. PC postage is different (see below).



Yes, please also remember that they would need to pay the annual fee to use his pre-cancelled stamps even though he collected them with a minimum of 200 pieces.

Chris, from the above I get that the folks you are talking to do not have the foggiest idea about this!
The problem is that you have to use the closest Post Office to where you live - the mail that you frank with precancels has to be handed over to the clerk! Good luck


Peter

The problem is the nearest post office has no idea about this nor could help with the permit. One of them said I would have to do this online.

And the people doing this is the Business Center at one of the largest mail processing centers in New York City - just down the street from the Farley Post Office on 34th Street near Penn Station and Madison Square Garden.

If there is anyone in New York City who succeeded in getting the permit I seek, please let me know.

I responded to the USPS person with this email, just asking he triple check his info:

David

Thanks for investigating this. However, I am not using the precanceled stamps for any of the categories that require an annual fee. I am using it only for first class domestic and international mail and, possibly, postcards. According to the information you were given there seems to be no set fee established for such use of precanceled stamps so I wonder if there is none. That is what I just want triple checked.

In sum:

a) I am a stamp collector. I am not intending to use 200 precancelled stamps per mailing. Right now I have less than 100 precancelled stamps to use for the entire YEAR.
b) I would use the precancelled stamps with non-denominated and/or denominated stamps (authorized for use for packages, letters and postcards) to send first class letter mail and international letter mail. Not for bulk mailing or marketing materials. And I am not using these for any non-p[rofit organization mailings.
c) I am not a business. I am a single individual who just wants to use extra precancelled stamps as part of first class mail postage. Therefore it seems the intended use of the precancelled stamps falls in NONE of the categories that have an annual mailing fee.
c) Furthermore according to the Domestic Mail Manual precanceled stamps may be used for First Class Mail and as it is not one of the categories requiring a fee IU wonder if there is none. See the following from the Daily Mail Manual 604 Section 3 Precancelled Stamps:

Domestic Mail Manual • Updated 1-22-23 604
3.3 USPS Precanceled Stamps USPS precanceled stamps are preprinted with a price category as the precancellation method. The following also applies: a. Unless used to pay single-piece postage as specified in 3.3d or to pay postage as specified in 3.5 or 3.6, or permitted by other standards or Business Acceptance Solutions authorization, only one USPS precanceled stamp may be affixed to each piece in a mailing. b. Mailpieces bearing a USPS precanceled stamp must include the return address. 604.3.4.5 Postage Payment Methods: Precanceled Stamps c. If the return address is not within the delivery area of the Post Office of mailing, the mailer must place a cancellation endorsement on the piece or provide mailing information to the Post Office shown in the return address. d. USPS precanceled stamps may be used to pay single-piece postage if the piece bearing the stamps has the correct marking (e.g., "First-Class Mail") immediately under the postage.

So, I ask ONLY you to triple check if there is an annual fee to use pre-cancelled stamps with those authorized for first class letters and postcards.

If you could do this, I would greatly appreciate it and whatever answer you provide I will accept.

Chris Sahar

In case it gets missed, on previous page here:
https://goscf.com/t/84793#784647

Despite being right about the procedures and regulations to get this for free, at some point the time investment just isn't worth the savings. One must have a substantial stamp stock, a wet tongue to apply multiple stamps to each envelope and then time drive to the PO for each mailing. I can't see the payback for the effort.

Well an update from USPS. The rep there finally understood my request and said I do NOT need a permit to use precanceled stamps as part of postage to send DOMESTIC first class letters/packages/postcards. However, the mail would have to be canceled at a post office retail desk. It CANNOT be put into a mailbox.

John B - the payoff is in the long run for me. I would hate to be stuck with tons of precanceled stamps of which at least portion I could NOT use for postage. I know a handful I could sell (basically anything with a plate number), a few to keep for my collection, and a little but to donate. That would still leave me with a fair amount of duplicates.

I must agree with John Becker.
And it's not necessarily just the time spent traipsing off to the PO for each mailing that may be problematical. In my case, the post office that handled pre-canceled mail was on the northern edge of the city ... I live on the southern edge. Every round trip to the PO would have seen me using the better part of a gallon of gas. Perhaps not so costly in 2015, but certainly more so these days. It was, in fact, the distance to the PO that led me to drop my pursuit of a permit. Even had I obtained one, I would not have often used it.

Everybody has their own interests, or no interest, in getting an MPP permit.
I have no interest in stamps that are pre-canceled by USPS, for pre-sorted mail, for commercial bulk mailers, etc.

Also, I rarely need to go to the post office to actually mail out what I postmarked with my MPP cancelers (I have 4, for different zip codes).

The main reason I need, want and have such a FREE MPP permit is to do my own postmarking. Occasionally, not often.

Either postally, to actually mail something, or just philatelically.

It saves me the frustration of explaining PHILATELIC HAND-BACK to various postal associates and their equally clueless supervisors.

I can create AT WILL maxicards or envelopes, placing the postmark exactly where I want.
[Dos Equis] "I don't always postmark, but when I do, I do it without reluctance, refusal and all that post office drama. Stay frustration-free, my friends!".


It took me a lot of explaining, even if I showed them the paragraph from their own USPS Postal Operations Manual.
Because I wanted the local postmark on my dolphin maxicards.
But in the future I could obtain my own Virginia Beach free postmarking permit MPP and canceling device (from Office Depot or so).

Good post DC1, I like those dolphin maxicards

Prompted me to make this...


Don

Which goes against what knowledgeable others have posted in this thread and those linked to it that you DO need a mailers permit through the post office where you intend to mail your letters.

Good reply, Don!
The only thing that HAS to be changed is that comma instead of period.
Also, the word reluctance is not clear, for the conveyed message.

Whoever looks only at your cool image might think that the reluctance is something that characterizes only me, the one who would prefer to do the postmarking.

Instead of reluctance, maybe "post office reluctance", or even "post office refusal". Yes, the overall font height would have to be decreased.

You brilliantly included my maxicards image, at the right inclination, in your Dos Equis parody image.

John Becker, I agree.

John- I know the USPS rep was wrong saying I do not need a permit to use Precanceled stamps as part of postage to mail first class mail. Still I may test it out one day and present the email. But it shows the level of ignorance at the USPS.

I would LOVE to share this with one of the very higher-ups or even (just dreamin) De Joy. But honestly I think they don't care and will continue to post losses as they grapple blindly to determine what would actually work best for both philatelists and the average US citizen.

For now will likely donate most of the duplicates and try to sell a few pncs on my ebay store.

Chris,

When you posted the USPS response above, you did not say that you knew the response was incorrect, so there was no indication whether you were posting it as fact or fiction. I had to assume that you believed it to be correct, when it was not.

I don't now how many mailer permits for precancels are active in the U.S., but I suspect it is only few hundred at most, which means only one in a hundred post offices might have a customer with one. It is not logical to expect clerks to know that level of seldom-used detail. The easiest business solution for the USPS would be to simplify forms and operations and to eliminate the permits altogether and have precancels used only by true mass-mailers.