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Is This Overprint Genuine Or Fake?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 702Next Topic  
Valued Member
Germany
67 Posts
Posted 08/29/2023   11:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add grisuhh62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,
I found this stamp with this Spanish overprint "OFICIAL". (Scott #319?)



Is this overprint fake or genuine? If this is genuine, where did it come from, where was it placed and why?
I know, a lot of questions.
Regards
Juergen
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1429 Posts
Posted 08/30/2023   4:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Possible the overprint printer does not know that in the english dictionary it is spelled "OFFICIAL" .
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
7530 Posts
Posted 08/30/2023   4:22 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The overprint appears to be on top of the cancellation. Is that how it looks in the flesh?
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Valued Member
Switzerland
114 Posts
Posted 08/30/2023   7:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add drkohler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are no US stamps overprinted with the Spanish version "Oficial" (instead of the englisch spelling). "Oficial" overprints were made in the Central America countries (but not on Canal Zone stamps).
Use a side light and check if the crude overprint is on top of the cancel or not. In any case, the faker was geographically or linguistically challenged.
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Valued Member
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United States
258 Posts
Posted 08/30/2023   8:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ZebraMan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"OFICIAL" is the Spanish spelling. Here is a Mexico O55 from 1900 with a similar (but not identical) overprint.

The font is different but that doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

There was a lot of interesting cross-border activity between US and Mexico in the early 20th century, so there is some possibility of it being a genuine usage.

Here is a dual-usage cover (not mine) with the same US stamp design as yours, together with Mexican postage as well. PF Cert 374713 submitted by Belasco "It is a Genuine Usage".


Also during the 1914 Veracruz USA occupation there are examples of US postage mailed from Mexico as well as Mexican stamps with U.S.M. postmarks.




I admit none of these examples relate directly to your Oficial overprint, just interesting cross-border synergies. Perhaps it is a makeshift overprint, or perhaps it was just someone having fun. I am not an expert in the area so I can't speculate which it is.

Good point GeoffHa about checking if the overprint is on top of the cancellation, if you can tell.


Update: drkohler's message came in right before I sent my reply and I didn't see it earlier. I was responding to the original post, I was not trying to refute the statement that "There are no US stamps overprinted with the Spanish version "Oficial".
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Edited by ZebraMan - 08/30/2023 8:20 pm
Valued Member
Germany
67 Posts
Posted 08/31/2023   2:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add grisuhh62 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am a member of an society in Germany that deals with philately of the USA and Canada (Arge USA CANADA). A member owns this stamp and asked this question within the club. I thought that I can surely get an answer in a (this) forum in the USA. And it is true!
Thanks for the detailed answers! I will pass these along.
Juergen
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6635 Posts
Posted 09/01/2023   10:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For reasons I can't explain, using magnification will frequently show the overprint and the cancel floating above the surface.
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United States
480 Posts
Posted 09/02/2023   8:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Willwood42 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the lower half of the overprint ( letters O F I C) the overprint is too dark to discern whether the cancellation is on top. For the lighter upper half of overprint (letters I A L), it appears to me that the cancellation is on top. Perhaps easier to tell with the stamp in hand.
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Bedrock Of The Community
10762 Posts
Posted 09/02/2023   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
IMO "overprint" is a misnomer. It could very well be a genuine handstamp applied for some reason.
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United States
12062 Posts
Posted 09/02/2023   9:54 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought we put this topic to (overprint over/under cancel) to bed several times before...
There are multiple threads in this forum which show images where in one area it clearly shows the overprint on top of the cancel and on another area of the same stamp it clearly shows the overprint under the cancel.
In other words, bitmap images are 2D and it is virtually impossible to determine a Z axis order. Even with stamp in hand it can be impossible. Using a VSC or having different wavelength lighting sources and distinct angles can sometimes get you closer to a definitive conclusion.
Don
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Netherlands
3835 Posts
Posted 09/03/2023   02:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
IMO "overprint" is a misnomer. It could very well be a genuine handstamp applied for some reason.


One that comes to mind is when the stamp was received as a specimen such as stamps given as a present to delegates at a UPU congress. Another example might be stamps covering international tariffs sent to UPU members.

Still, you would expect the sender to apply 'cancelled' or 'specimen' and the Spanish text on a US stamp could only make sense if US stamps were used by an agency or the military in a Spanish-speaking territory.
Even if a receiving postal authority applied the text, you would expect it to read "muestra." But if it was a specimen, you would not expect the stamp to have been used.

edited last sentence for clarification
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Edited by NSK - 09/03/2023 03:40 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2555 Posts
Posted 09/03/2023   05:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Siegel Power Search returns no hits on that issue. If real, such would likely have an auction history.


Quote:
It could very well be a genuine handstamp applied for some reason.


Yes, spot on, by a 10 year old for fun.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 09/03/2023 05:20 am
Bedrock Of The Community
10762 Posts
Posted 09/03/2023   07:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Somehow I just don't see a ten year old making or purchasing a hand stamp that says "oficial" and applying it diagonally. Maybe an eleven year old but not ten.
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