Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

Classic Coins,

Thanks for taking the time to look at my item. In going back and reviewing options, I think 46L3 make a better match. The right inner frame line is a much better match. I few others were also considered (46R3,27R3) but the inner left frame lines do not appear to match as well.

Again, thank for the feedback and hopefully this one aligns with what you found.

Hobsun

Hi Hobsun,

Yes, 46L3 is correct. Nice job plating it!

Giving a bump to this marvellous thread...

I got back a little more into plating and studying the 3 cents 1851-57 (in my top two of my favourite stamps) and decided to plate this one. It's really damaged, but if it has four margins, I'll still be happy to plate it!

My best match would be 71L3. Looks like it has a recut #23 (upper left inner line runs up too far). Could someone please confirm the position?

Thank you in advance!

All,

I have another one that puzzles me a bit. This stamp was found among several other stamps listed as having the Type 2 recut (no inner lines). On the reverse it is marked as POS 17L1e (which is listed as a Type 3- Inner line at right). I do see a line on the right but it is very weak when compared to the colored example of this listing on the Classic Society Plating DB. The Black and White version is closer but not as easy to view. Stamp Smarter does not provide examples of this one.

This may very well be POS 17L1e but I would appreciate a second set of eyes for confirmation as most other areas appear to match. Given this was also sorted among several other Types 2 recuts it gives me slight pause. Likely overly cautious but worth a look as least for me. For an "Early" entry it seems weak in this case.







Thanks in advance as always.
Hobsun

IMHO, I don't think it is 17L1e. Other than the color looking wrong, the primary reason for me is the left frame line of the stamp to the right does not look like it can be 18L1e because the upper left rosette would be almost touching the frame line. I still defer to the experts.

NicholasC,

I had not paid much attention to that frame line out to the right side of my stamp. I see what you are saying about expecting to see the Rosette as least to some degree based on the 18L1e photo. It will be interesting to see where this goes. I, of course, would like to get ot the point where, if it is determined not to be 17L1e, we are able to identify the actual plating. I am hoping more will wiegh in over time. Lots to learn on this one for me.

Hobsun

Hi Hobsun,

Your stamp has a trace of a left inner line in addition to the right inner line. I plated it to plate 5L (definitely not 5E).

Let me know if you want me to reveal it.

I don't know what the position of this one is, but I'm like you in that I want to check what some previous collector thought before just accepting it. I find that about 5%-10% are plated wrong, and in some of those cases the correct plating is either 1) same position, but other pane (L vs. R), or a different state of the plate, but same position (5L instead of 5e), so I always check those first before trying to plate from scratch. And even once I plate "from scratch" on a stamp where a previous owner wrote the wrong position, after I check for plate, relief, recuts, and guide dots, I check the possible matches on the same plate, same row, and same column as the incorrect plating - that sometimes catches it. . .I just found one that was plated as 31R3 that was actually 91R3 - someone probably plated it correctly, but made a transposition mistake.

Classic Coins,

Thanks for the hint, I will look at Plate 5L tomorrow and see what I come up with.

Philazilla,

I like your strategy and it always helps to have a plan of attack and sometimes you just luck into a match.

I will post my research tomorrow.

Hobsun

All,

Well, I started early today and dug thru Plate 5L. The most significant element I focused on was the details of the faint inner left line. (Plate 5L, no guide dots, 2 inner lines gave me 103 items to look at). A great deal of them could be eliminated due to a more defined left inner line. In the end, the closest I could find was 95R5L. This position presents a comparable faint inner left line (at least to my eye) and the right inner frame line is particularly weak in some common areas. I do see a bit of waviness in my stamp on the bottom frame line (to the left) that is not as clear in the samples I compared to. I perceive some slight bends in both outer frame lines and I know certain individuals use the compressed images to zero in on these variances and that may help confirm or deny my observations. At this point, I will look for additional feedback.
Thanks
Hobsun

Hi Hobsun,

95R5L looks very similar, but I noted some differences. It's really hard to see because of lightness of recutting, but the right inner line goes up farther on 95R5L than on your stamp. Also, 95R5L has a distinct bend in the left frame line about two-fifths of the way down, and the LIL doesn't match.

I used vertically-compressed images to search, and I found the match at an A-relief on the left pane. I mainly focused on the part of the left inner line that separates from the tessellated area, about a third of the way down from the top of the tessellated area. There also is a distinct bend near the middle of the right frame line.

(Edited to clarify notes)

P.S., If you use the vertically-compressed Chase print to search, I recommend searching for the RFL bend, as the LIL may not be visible on the Chase print.

Classic Coins,

You gave me more hints and they drive me to only 43 positions (5L, no guide dots, Relief A, 2 relatively week inner lines). Again, many positions could be eliminated based on having too strong inner lines on one side or the other.

My focus this time was - right inner frame line very weak near center of stamp just where the outer frame line takes a bend, the area you mentioned on the left inner frame line where it seems the line breaks a bit from the tessling, the strong bottom frame line with a slightly heavier right side, the left outer frame near the bottom has what might be a bit of a doubling or at least gets fuzzy it also seems to bend in just a touch at the bottom, and the shape of the diamonds in the 4 blocks. I zeroed in on 71,72,76,77, 95,99 mostly for closeness on the inner frame lines but found none that hit all the spots. I also looked at the compressed files and tried to do a match up as well. In the end my best guess is 72L5L or 77L5L. What I don't like on 72L5L is a bit of weakness in the left outer frame line which does not seem to be on my stamp. On 77L5L the right inner frame line seems just a bit too weak.

I guess now I am asking for the final verdict as my eyes are tired and I am not sure deeper dives on this one will generate much more from me.

Thanks again for your pointers and patience. It will be intersting to see how close I came.

Hobsun

Hi Hobsun,

Great work narrowing it down. I plated it to one of your two final positions, 72L5L. If you compare the compressed Stamp Smarter reference images of 72L5L to your stamp, you should be able to see the match in the trace of the left inner line that separates from the tessellated design that I noted.

Regarding the weakness in the left frame line not quite matching your stamp, I would suggest that could be because your stamp has a better quality print than the other reference images. Inking/wiping variations can do a lot to the appearance of frame lines. Your stamp looks like it could be a high quality yellowish rose red print. Many of the YRRs have superior impressions due to high-quality ink and a smoother high-quality paper that was in use at the time.

Your stamp is a beauty!

Classic Coins,

Much appreciation for your support on this one. No real chance I would have gotten this one without the aid of your hints. I do like the color and clarity on my stamp and now I can give it a proper designation. Your second hint of Left vs Right on 5L was significant in terms reducing my brute force search down to a manageable level of entries. Best of all, I learned quite a lot.

My thanks to Philazilla and NicholasC as well. Each response added to the journey and kept me focused.

Hobsun

You're welcome, Hobsun.