George Washington Stamp 1861 3 Cent. Rose Or Pink

You can find regular 64's with the same Portland October '61 PM and that is what I see, with the usual warnings about color on monitors etc. IMHO the condition does not make a cert worth it either way unless you want to settle in your mind which it is. As to why a dealer let it continue on? Condition if you ask me. The back is no doubt ugly as well?

Thanks, all - I think I'll send it in just to settle the question. Perfectly fine with a regular 64 as an outcome, too.

@Rog - it is a rather ugly copy, but the album was truly 'unpicked' by a dealer (bought it from a used bookstore and there were quite a few other desirable 19th century world classics in there that would have been removed had it passed through the hands of an actual dealer)

A blueish tint doesn't always equate to 64a. Remember that there are 3 different shades that equate to #64: pink, carmine pink and lavender pink.

The carmine pink and lavender pink have been certified as pigeon blood pink, although they are different shades completely than pigeon blood. I realize that there is a popular thought that pigeon blood pink must contain blue. The problem is that no one has ever located Stanley Ashbrook's reference collection, and Ashbrook is the person that came up with the pigeon blood moniker.

If you check with back issues of The Chronicle, there is an article by Mike McClung that suggests that Ashbrook called 64a pigeon blood pink, because it was the shade that was similar to the pigeon blood ruby, which is supposedly the rarest of the rare. I don't know a lot about the ruby, but McClung suggests that pigeon blood pink is "ruby pink" not "blueish pink", as blueish pink would be lavender pink.

Not meaning to hijack the topic here, but whenever I see pigeon blood described as containing "blue", I feel it's best to at least interject with the "ruby" thought.

gvol- it's a shame that your stamp isn't in great condition, because whether it's 64, 64a or 64 (lavender pink), it's just a beautiful shade, and sure looks like 64-something!

Ray

Thanks, Ray. Regardless of which shade of 64 it turns out to be, I think it's a fun story and worth the cert. And I won't be disappointed if it's a cheaper one - after all, the stamp isn't worth much, so the silver lining would be a lower expertizing bill!

Could either of these stamps be in the pink shades?

Paid-- sorry, no chance. When you look at these, compared to a pink color, they look brown.....Ray

So does that mean there rose or rose brown? Or maybe the picture doesn't help

Apologies for "butting in", but how was the pink printing ink produced? Reducing the ratio of red pigment to oil so the white of the paper showed through, or mixing it with white lead or fine chalk or something?

The colors range from Rose to Pigeon Blood Pink due to a variance in pigment ingredients and/or quantities used when mixing the ink over many press runs during the four-years of issuance. Keep in mind that the Civil War was going on during this period. I have never come across manufacturing records that detailed ink formulas. Likely the best info would come from spectrographic and chemical analysis done by researchers and parties like the Philatelic Foundation.

Thanks. I was thinking along the lines of a white pigment being used to extend supplies of the red colourant as an economy measure, but I don't know what a C19 printer would use to print white, and thus would have on hand to do the dilution.

No way to, or that I'm aware of to determine a color on this issue without the stamp or cover being month- and year-dated. Your two stamps are faded, so you really can't determine for those. Compare yours with others in this topic and you'll see what I'm describing. Neither looks like a rose brown.

Sorry, Ray

For some reason the stamp on the right in the photo matches up too dull pink on my color chart, is this a color the stamp was printed in when they printed these stamps? Thanks Ray Mac appreciate your honesty. I am probably going out on a limb on this one.


Edit: Since the stamps are faded does that mean that I may not determine there color?

Color charts won't work on this issue. Your stamp is not pink in any way.
Here is a pink-- think cotton candy:

This is a pale rose brown:


Hope this helps. Call both of your stamps "rose", because they're both faded, and no way to identify one of the specialized shades when faded, or not dated.
Sorry, Ray

Thanks for the help Ray Mac it certianly simplifies things just calling them rose.